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Subject: Re: Junior 8 can't mates with B+N !!

Author: Terry McCracken

Date: 15:15:55 07/28/03

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On July 28, 2003 at 15:31:40, margolies,marc wrote:

>I think Uri is right and serious--but he doesn't need to chorussed by an amateur
>like me.
>And Terry, since you are ALIEN to programming methodology, you ought to consider
>that these programs were DESIGNED to work with nalimov EG tables in computer
>tournaments where these tables are allowed. I think your critcisms of chess
>engines are capricious in the specific sense that they are predicated on a
>disappointment that machines don't ape human behavior to solve chess positions.
>That was the point of my original post in levity.

Yeah, thanks marc.....and no, I don't agree with you. EGTBS are great, but
shouldn't replace _basic_ knowledge.....I've seen the problems this causes
in some cases.

Terry
>
>
>On July 28, 2003 at 08:03:20, Terry McCracken wrote:
>
>>On July 28, 2003 at 07:36:58, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On July 28, 2003 at 07:17:08, Terry McCracken wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 28, 2003 at 02:26:49, margolies,marc wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Ok terry, eduard-- I agree with both of you. Whenever you enter yourselfs in
>>>>>computer chess competitions from now on, you have may permission to bring all
>>>>>five volumes of eco with you into the computer competition from now on,
>>>>>similarly all five volumes of ece-- i'll right you a note for FIDE.
>>>>>Also, in fairness with fide rules, we should drug test the computer operators
>>>>>with serum and urine so that you boys wont be unfairly hampered as humans, which
>>>>>I still presume that you are.
>>>>>best regards, marc
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>No we're ALIENS....
>>>>
>>>>Now what the hell are you talking about? I said programmes should have _all_
>>>>basic Endgame Knowledge....IE Fundamental Mates with K+Q vs K, K+R vs K ,
>>>>K+BB vs King, K+BN vs K, and how to win Basic Endgames, such as K+Q vs K+R etc.
>>>>
>>>>I don't agree that EGTBS should be needed to cover this type of Elementry Chess
>>>>Knowledge. They also should understand a B of the Wrong Colour can't force a
>>>>pawn in on the Rook File, also they should see other Elementry Draws with  pawns
>>>>advanced to the seventh rank, IE Bishop File and Rook File can Force Draw
>>>>against K+Q vs K+P on these files if the opposing King is too far away and the
>>>>other King is there supporting these pawns.
>>>>
>>>>Terry
>>>
>>>I do not plan to implement tablebases and I plan to implement this knowledge in
>>>the future in movei(I already have part of it in my latest version and latest
>>>movei knows to win KQ vs KR)
>>>
>>>I do not like the fact that people criticize programs like Junior for not having
>>>the knowledge because the purpose of the programmers was to teach the program to
>>>play better and not to solve the problem without tablebases.
>>>
>>>I even read that some deleted knowledge after implementing tablebases because
>>>the knowledge is not needed.
>>>
>>>I do not think that people should be surprised when a program that was developed
>>>for task A fails in task B.
>>>
>>>A lot of top programs are developed to play better and the programmers do not
>>>care about what happens when you do not use tablebases.
>>>
>>>By the same logic you can decide that the program should not use hash
>>>tables(humans do not have memory to remember million of lines).
>>>
>>>They should not search more than 10 nodes per second(humans are unable to search
>>>more than it and if you give programs to search more than 10 nodes per second
>>>then it is the same as giving humans more time).
>>>
>>>Uri
>>
>>You can't be serious?
>>
>>Terry



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