Author: margolies,marc
Date: 00:28:43 07/30/03
Go up one level in this thread
get yourself a hard drive the spins faster than 5400 rpm terry, you wont be lamenting 16mhz processors when using tablebases. In Fact, consider a motherboard which supports SATA harddrives on your next machine! On July 29, 2003 at 04:25:04, Terry McCracken wrote: >On July 29, 2003 at 03:25:02, margolies,marc wrote: > >>terry, >>the example you have given in my opinion is not a table base related issue. >>If the egtbs are complete, it is my understanding-specifically with shredder >>from its helpfile doc- that in calculating a line of variations (forcing say) >>that leads to a table base position, then the engine will lookup that evaluation >>--in your example a draw-- and assign it to the line. >>The kind of problem you describe is the result of machines trying to calculate a >>solution that is already known in real time, not a tablebase problem. >>When running a chess camp with my coach 6 years ago I remeber Justin Sarkin, now >>an IM getting into a position in Hiarcs on my Mac laptop at the camp where he >>was losing to HIARCS in a technical King and Pawn ending. We all knew this >>ending because it was the subject of a lecture that day by our EG specialist, >>Leon Verhovsky who wrote the book "Nichiya!" But HIARCS could not convert the >>extra half point and the game was drawn. >>In short, I do not think your example butresses your opinions. >> >>Admittedly, it is natural to resist putting 8 gigabytes of endgame tables on an >>older machine. I know that win95 probably cannot address 8 gigabytes of rom for >>example. But this is the newest programs need. It is also relevant to use faster >>access on these drives. To defrag them regulrly etc. These are performance >>indicators which players do not always elaborate upon. >> >>Uri, tha >> >> >>On July 29, 2003 at 03:05:57, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On July 28, 2003 at 23:09:42, Terry McCracken wrote: >>> >>>>On July 28, 2003 at 20:25:51, margolies,marc wrote: >>>> >>>>>Ok Terry, what are the problems that you've seen caused by implementing EGTBs >>>>>and removing knowledge files from engines? I think the conversation is heading >>>>>somewhere now... >>>>> >>>>I've seen programmes miss for example, combinations that lead to a forced draw >>>>with a pawn or pawns on the rook file with the wrong coloured Bishop. >>> >>>Note that the original subject was about KBN vs K and I see no demage in playing >>>strength if you know to win it only by tablebases. >>> >>>I did not implement it in movei and the practical importance of it is small and >>>one of the reasons is that computer opponents with tablebases usually prefer to >>>resign or to let movei to get a bigger material advantage. >>> >>>Uri > >As I said guys I'm bias in this area of computer chess....and although I think >EGTBS are a great idea, and practical, I'd like the computer programme itself >know this....even the old Mach III Master had this type of knowledge and it was >a slow computer...16Mhz, 16 bit processor (Motorola 68000) with only 8 bit >code!:) > >Also in those days, the programmes were in machine language, assembler, which >only Ed Schroder I believe still employs at the heart of Rebel....I still think >this method is superior, but painstaking. > >Also I believe Christophe worked hard on endgame knowledge as he didn't employ >EGTBS until CT 15 which has both a good endgame and now includes tablebases to >top it off:) > > >Yes I did notice EGTBS not come into play fast enough when a middlegame position >had to be calculated and involved a series of sacs to reduce it to a position >EGTBS would come into play....it was rather disappointing to see fast hardware >slow to find the draw....when slow hardware with an outdated programme was very >fast! > > >It's "Old School", and I guess I'm getting old as well....sigh...not their yet >mind you!;-) > >Nevertheless, a little extra knowledge goes a long ways and may be worth a few >plies! > >Terry > >P.S. > >Ed and Christophe are the experts...maybe they can voice their opinion on this >matter?
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