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Subject: Re: Any reason to use C?

Author: Omid David Tabibi

Date: 03:52:28 07/30/03

Go up one level in this thread


On July 30, 2003 at 00:00:54, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On July 29, 2003 at 22:10:11, Matthew White wrote:
>
>>On July 29, 2003 at 22:08:13, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On July 29, 2003 at 20:16:59, Matthew White wrote:
>>>
>>>>On July 29, 2003 at 16:53:05, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On July 29, 2003 at 03:15:54, Hristo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On July 28, 2003 at 19:12:56, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On July 28, 2003 at 17:34:46, Russell Reagan wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Is there any reason to start new projects with C anymore? It seems like most (if
>>>>>>>>not all) of the drawbacks of C++ have faded away with modern compilers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Note that I am talking about new projects, and maintaining old projects is
>>>>>>>>obviously a good reason to still use C.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>If i would learn coding today i would prefer C++.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>However let's be clear, for good programmers there is not much diff between C
>>>>>>>and C++. Every complex problem which you can solve in 10000 lines of C++ you can
>>>>>>>solve in 10000 lines C too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Vincent,
>>>>>>with all due respect I must disagree. In 10K lines of C++ code one can solve a
>>>>>>much more general or larger set of problem(s) or cram in more features. :)
>>>>>>(think templates, exceptions, and often inheritance ... all of which can shorten
>>>>>>your code)
>>>>>
>>>>>I do not know about you, but i program both in C and C++.
>>>>>
>>>>>Do you?
>>>>>
>>>>>Not a single program where you can use all the nice toys you can also make a few
>>>>>functions for in C.
>>>>>
>>>>>In general the average programmed C++ program you program more compact in C.
>>>>>
>>>>>That's not what i'm talking about.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you do not know how to program in C, then just say it loud instead of writing
>>>>>it down like this.
>>>>>
>>>>>the advantages of what you mention here (assuming 1 man products) you can show
>>>>>great in 50 line examples or even 200 line examples.
>>>>>
>>>>>But as soon as you write a 10000 line product then it doesn't matter what you do
>>>>>in C++. I can do the same in C too. No problem!
>>>>>
>>>>>>In your post, latter, you indicate that C++ offers some advantages over C,
>>>>>>especially for large projects. In my experience this is %100 true, so we are in
>>>>>
>>>>>I see no other advantages to C++ than for big projects in fact.
>>>>>
>>>>>The advantage is *really* huge there for companies.
>>>>>
>>>>>Given the importance of those companies for the world, the choice to teach
>>>>>students C++ instead of C is a logical choice.
>>>>>
>>>>>teaching them Java, delphi i find a bad idea.
>>>>>
>>>>The best reason that I see to teach students using Java is that Java gives you
>>>>useful information when an error occurs (remember the first time you saw a
>>>>segmentation fault how lost you felt?). Java has strong typing and it FORCES
>>>>object orientedness. C and C++ are too frustrating for new programmers...
>>>>
>>>>Matt
>>>
>>>
>>>Strong typing was also Pascal's claim to fame.  Thankfully it died a
>>>graceful death.
>>
>>It was good for teaching, though...
>>
>>Matt
>
>
>Depends on your ultimate goal.  If you are going to be a programmer, it is
>not the best way to go.  If you program in Java for 4 years, then leave and
>go to work where they use C, you have a _long_ learning curve.  You've never
>seen pointers, for example.

I completely agree with this.

During the past few years many US universities have switched to Java as the main
programming language. Do they comprise the majority now?

There is also a strong trend of moving towards Java in European universities,
but I don't know whether that's what the majority of universities do.

In Israel, fortunately, C++ is still the main programming language, but there is
an increasing pressure to replace it with Java. I'm personally advocating even
more C in the C++, but I have the minority opinion...

>
>We took a _lot_ of heat about that from companies like BellSouth.



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