Author: Terry McCracken
Date: 09:52:30 07/30/03
Go up one level in this thread
On July 30, 2003 at 03:28:43, margolies,marc wrote: >get yourself a hard drive the spins faster than 5400 rpm terry, you wont be >lamenting 16mhz processors when using tablebases. In Fact, consider a >motherboard which supports SATA harddrives on your next machine! I wasn't talking about my machine...but reports I've read here, albiet I could use a new machine. My point is EGTBS are great, but so is some knowledge in the endgame too. Terry > > >On July 29, 2003 at 04:25:04, Terry McCracken wrote: > >>On July 29, 2003 at 03:25:02, margolies,marc wrote: >> >>>terry, >>>the example you have given in my opinion is not a table base related issue. >>>If the egtbs are complete, it is my understanding-specifically with shredder >>>from its helpfile doc- that in calculating a line of variations (forcing say) >>>that leads to a table base position, then the engine will lookup that evaluation >>>--in your example a draw-- and assign it to the line. >>>The kind of problem you describe is the result of machines trying to calculate a >>>solution that is already known in real time, not a tablebase problem. >>>When running a chess camp with my coach 6 years ago I remeber Justin Sarkin, now >>>an IM getting into a position in Hiarcs on my Mac laptop at the camp where he >>>was losing to HIARCS in a technical King and Pawn ending. We all knew this >>>ending because it was the subject of a lecture that day by our EG specialist, >>>Leon Verhovsky who wrote the book "Nichiya!" But HIARCS could not convert the >>>extra half point and the game was drawn. >>>In short, I do not think your example butresses your opinions. >>> >>>Admittedly, it is natural to resist putting 8 gigabytes of endgame tables on an >>>older machine. I know that win95 probably cannot address 8 gigabytes of rom for >>>example. But this is the newest programs need. It is also relevant to use faster >>>access on these drives. To defrag them regulrly etc. These are performance >>>indicators which players do not always elaborate upon. >>> >>>Uri, tha >>> >>> >>>On July 29, 2003 at 03:05:57, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On July 28, 2003 at 23:09:42, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>> >>>>>On July 28, 2003 at 20:25:51, margolies,marc wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>Ok Terry, what are the problems that you've seen caused by implementing EGTBs >>>>>>and removing knowledge files from engines? I think the conversation is heading >>>>>>somewhere now... >>>>>> >>>>>I've seen programmes miss for example, combinations that lead to a forced draw >>>>>with a pawn or pawns on the rook file with the wrong coloured Bishop. >>>> >>>>Note that the original subject was about KBN vs K and I see no demage in playing >>>>strength if you know to win it only by tablebases. >>>> >>>>I did not implement it in movei and the practical importance of it is small and >>>>one of the reasons is that computer opponents with tablebases usually prefer to >>>>resign or to let movei to get a bigger material advantage. >>>> >>>>Uri >> >>As I said guys I'm bias in this area of computer chess....and although I think >>EGTBS are a great idea, and practical, I'd like the computer programme itself >>know this....even the old Mach III Master had this type of knowledge and it was >>a slow computer...16Mhz, 16 bit processor (Motorola 68000) with only 8 bit >>code!:) >> >>Also in those days, the programmes were in machine language, assembler, which >>only Ed Schroder I believe still employs at the heart of Rebel....I still think >>this method is superior, but painstaking. >> >>Also I believe Christophe worked hard on endgame knowledge as he didn't employ >>EGTBS until CT 15 which has both a good endgame and now includes tablebases to >>top it off:) >> >> >>Yes I did notice EGTBS not come into play fast enough when a middlegame position >>had to be calculated and involved a series of sacs to reduce it to a position >>EGTBS would come into play....it was rather disappointing to see fast hardware >>slow to find the draw....when slow hardware with an outdated programme was very >>fast! >> >> >>It's "Old School", and I guess I'm getting old as well....sigh...not their yet >>mind you!;-) >> >>Nevertheless, a little extra knowledge goes a long ways and may be worth a few >>plies! >> >>Terry >> >>P.S. >> >>Ed and Christophe are the experts...maybe they can voice their opinion on this >>matter?
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