Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 10:17:51 07/30/03
Go up one level in this thread
On July 30, 2003 at 06:52:28, Omid David Tabibi wrote: >On July 30, 2003 at 00:00:54, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>On July 29, 2003 at 22:10:11, Matthew White wrote: >> >>>On July 29, 2003 at 22:08:13, Robert Hyatt wrote: >>> >>>>On July 29, 2003 at 20:16:59, Matthew White wrote: >>>> >>>>>On July 29, 2003 at 16:53:05, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On July 29, 2003 at 03:15:54, Hristo wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On July 28, 2003 at 19:12:56, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On July 28, 2003 at 17:34:46, Russell Reagan wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Is there any reason to start new projects with C anymore? It seems like most (if >>>>>>>>>not all) of the drawbacks of C++ have faded away with modern compilers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Note that I am talking about new projects, and maintaining old projects is >>>>>>>>>obviously a good reason to still use C. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>If i would learn coding today i would prefer C++. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>However let's be clear, for good programmers there is not much diff between C >>>>>>>>and C++. Every complex problem which you can solve in 10000 lines of C++ you can >>>>>>>>solve in 10000 lines C too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Vincent, >>>>>>>with all due respect I must disagree. In 10K lines of C++ code one can solve a >>>>>>>much more general or larger set of problem(s) or cram in more features. :) >>>>>>>(think templates, exceptions, and often inheritance ... all of which can shorten >>>>>>>your code) >>>>>> >>>>>>I do not know about you, but i program both in C and C++. >>>>>> >>>>>>Do you? >>>>>> >>>>>>Not a single program where you can use all the nice toys you can also make a few >>>>>>functions for in C. >>>>>> >>>>>>In general the average programmed C++ program you program more compact in C. >>>>>> >>>>>>That's not what i'm talking about. >>>>>> >>>>>>If you do not know how to program in C, then just say it loud instead of writing >>>>>>it down like this. >>>>>> >>>>>>the advantages of what you mention here (assuming 1 man products) you can show >>>>>>great in 50 line examples or even 200 line examples. >>>>>> >>>>>>But as soon as you write a 10000 line product then it doesn't matter what you do >>>>>>in C++. I can do the same in C too. No problem! >>>>>> >>>>>>>In your post, latter, you indicate that C++ offers some advantages over C, >>>>>>>especially for large projects. In my experience this is %100 true, so we are in >>>>>> >>>>>>I see no other advantages to C++ than for big projects in fact. >>>>>> >>>>>>The advantage is *really* huge there for companies. >>>>>> >>>>>>Given the importance of those companies for the world, the choice to teach >>>>>>students C++ instead of C is a logical choice. >>>>>> >>>>>>teaching them Java, delphi i find a bad idea. >>>>>> >>>>>The best reason that I see to teach students using Java is that Java gives you >>>>>useful information when an error occurs (remember the first time you saw a >>>>>segmentation fault how lost you felt?). Java has strong typing and it FORCES >>>>>object orientedness. C and C++ are too frustrating for new programmers... >>>>> >>>>>Matt >>>> >>>> >>>>Strong typing was also Pascal's claim to fame. Thankfully it died a >>>>graceful death. >>> >>>It was good for teaching, though... >>> >>>Matt >> >> >>Depends on your ultimate goal. If you are going to be a programmer, it is >>not the best way to go. If you program in Java for 4 years, then leave and >>go to work where they use C, you have a _long_ learning curve. You've never >>seen pointers, for example. > >I completely agree with this. > >During the past few years many US universities have switched to Java as the main >programming language. Do they comprise the majority now? It is getting close... > >There is also a strong trend of moving towards Java in European universities, >but I don't know whether that's what the majority of universities do. > >In Israel, fortunately, C++ is still the main programming language, but there is >an increasing pressure to replace it with Java. I'm personally advocating even >more C in the C++, but I have the minority opinion... > Java has its plusses. Many will use it in web-based applications, so there is a market for it. But not in large IT applications. >> >>We took a _lot_ of heat about that from companies like BellSouth.
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