Author: Matthew White
Date: 15:07:07 07/30/03
Go up one level in this thread
On July 30, 2003 at 00:00:54, Robert Hyatt wrote: >On July 29, 2003 at 22:10:11, Matthew White wrote: > >>On July 29, 2003 at 22:08:13, Robert Hyatt wrote: >> >>>On July 29, 2003 at 20:16:59, Matthew White wrote: >>> >>>>On July 29, 2003 at 16:53:05, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>> >>>>>On July 29, 2003 at 03:15:54, Hristo wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On July 28, 2003 at 19:12:56, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On July 28, 2003 at 17:34:46, Russell Reagan wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Is there any reason to start new projects with C anymore? It seems like most (if >>>>>>>>not all) of the drawbacks of C++ have faded away with modern compilers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Note that I am talking about new projects, and maintaining old projects is >>>>>>>>obviously a good reason to still use C. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>If i would learn coding today i would prefer C++. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>However let's be clear, for good programmers there is not much diff between C >>>>>>>and C++. Every complex problem which you can solve in 10000 lines of C++ you can >>>>>>>solve in 10000 lines C too. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Vincent, >>>>>>with all due respect I must disagree. In 10K lines of C++ code one can solve a >>>>>>much more general or larger set of problem(s) or cram in more features. :) >>>>>>(think templates, exceptions, and often inheritance ... all of which can shorten >>>>>>your code) >>>>> >>>>>I do not know about you, but i program both in C and C++. >>>>> >>>>>Do you? >>>>> >>>>>Not a single program where you can use all the nice toys you can also make a few >>>>>functions for in C. >>>>> >>>>>In general the average programmed C++ program you program more compact in C. >>>>> >>>>>That's not what i'm talking about. >>>>> >>>>>If you do not know how to program in C, then just say it loud instead of writing >>>>>it down like this. >>>>> >>>>>the advantages of what you mention here (assuming 1 man products) you can show >>>>>great in 50 line examples or even 200 line examples. >>>>> >>>>>But as soon as you write a 10000 line product then it doesn't matter what you do >>>>>in C++. I can do the same in C too. No problem! >>>>> >>>>>>In your post, latter, you indicate that C++ offers some advantages over C, >>>>>>especially for large projects. In my experience this is %100 true, so we are in >>>>> >>>>>I see no other advantages to C++ than for big projects in fact. >>>>> >>>>>The advantage is *really* huge there for companies. >>>>> >>>>>Given the importance of those companies for the world, the choice to teach >>>>>students C++ instead of C is a logical choice. >>>>> >>>>>teaching them Java, delphi i find a bad idea. >>>>> >>>>The best reason that I see to teach students using Java is that Java gives you >>>>useful information when an error occurs (remember the first time you saw a >>>>segmentation fault how lost you felt?). Java has strong typing and it FORCES >>>>object orientedness. C and C++ are too frustrating for new programmers... >>>> >>>>Matt >>> >>> >>>Strong typing was also Pascal's claim to fame. Thankfully it died a >>>graceful death. >> >>It was good for teaching, though... >> >>Matt > > >Depends on your ultimate goal. If you are going to be a programmer, it is >not the best way to go. If you program in Java for 4 years, then leave and >go to work where they use C, you have a _long_ learning curve. You've never >seen pointers, for example. > >We took a _lot_ of heat about that from companies like BellSouth. I see what you mean. However, for intro-type classes, Java makes a lot of sense. When a student is first learning syntax, Java is far easier than C++. Once a student has a fairly good command of syntax, then C/C++ could be used for development in more advanced classes. It seems to me that the learning curve will be easier to overcome once syntax is no longer an issue...
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