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Subject: Re: Null move question

Author: Tony Werten

Date: 02:09:59 08/01/03

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On July 31, 2003 at 18:15:47, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On July 31, 2003 at 14:23:34, Tony Werten wrote:
>
>>On July 30, 2003 at 17:18:12, Rick Bischoff wrote:
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>a. at depth 3- hash table is empty for this position.  alpha = -INF, beta = +INF
>>>>>a. all requirements for null move are met
>>>>>a. makes null move:  int e = -alphabeta(depth - 3, -beta, -beta +1);
>>>>>
>>>>>b. now we are at depth 0, alpha = -INF, beta = -INF + 1
>>>>>b. we call quies(alpha, beta)
>>>>>
>>>>>c.  e = static eval is, oh say, 1.
>>>>>c.  e >= beta, return beta
>>>>>
>>>>>b. store this position in the hash table as -INF + 1, exact, depth = 0, return
>>>>>-INF + 1
>>>>
>>>>This is _way_ wrong.  How can it be "exact"???  It is impossible for the
>>>>search to return valid scores outside alpha/beta window as defined at the
>>>>root.  If you are returning an "edge" then it must be an upper or lower
>>>>edge, not an exact score.
>>>
>>>Yes, I know it is wrong-- which is why I was asking the question to begin with
>>>:-) What I do know is store anything quies returns as exact-- but you are
>>>telling me I can't do that, right?  (Forgive my ignorance!)
>>
>>You are correct (despite what the others say), but only if you use the failsoft
>>version of alphabeta.
>>
>>Tony
>
>I don't see how he can be correct even with failsoft.  If you get a score
>outside alpha/beta it is _never_ an exact score, it will only be a bound.

No it isn't. If you evaluate and take a beta cutoff, the evaluationscore is
still exact, has nothing to do with bounds.

If you evaluate below beta then there are 2 possibilities. In the end, best
score didn't improve, score is still eval, and eval is exact.
Second, bestscore did improve, must have been by search, so read from start, but
now 1 ply deeper.

Tony




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