Author: Slater Wold
Date: 21:01:32 08/01/03
Go up one level in this thread
On August 01, 2003 at 23:19:51, Eelco de Groot wrote: >That looks good Slater! I didn't think that Rebel was going to find it. I don't >have a supercomputer, with 500MHz Celeron and with a lot less hashtables, 28 Mb, >after entering Bf6 gxf6 exf6 the score still was not convincing when I broke it >off. >But you are more than six times as fast! You have to see the rook trade, if you're ever going to see a 'win', and *no* engine I have tested will trade the rooks. They all see Rd7+, but none consider trading. This really is beautiful, possibly one of the best realistic moves I've ever seen. >I was going to post the following output from some Rebel personalities, for >comparison: > > > >By the way I don't understand what all the dollarsigns in Kramnik's analysis >mean. If this the amount of money that Kramnik received for every analyzed line >then I find it a bit distasteful, not to mention that the Chess Informant people >must be getting poor fast. > >It is possible for a chessprogram to choose Bf6 on largely positional grounds, >as I'll show by analysis from the Rebel Q5T personality: > >[d]3R4/1kr2pp1/2p1p3/1pP1PnBP/pP3K2/8/P4P2/8 w - - 0 46 > >Q5T > >00:00:00.2 0,63 1 4 Ke4 >00:00:00.2 0,61 2 126 Ke4 a3 >00:00:00.3 0,58 3 466 Ke4 a3 >00:00:00.4 0,63 4 1526 Ke4 Rc8 >00:00:00.5 0,60 5 3083 Ke4 Ka6 >00:00:00.5 0,60 5 4616 Bf6 >00:00:00.5 0,60 5 3083 Ke4 Ka6 >00:00:00.7 0,60 6 8993 Ke4 Ka6 >00:00:00.7 0,60 6 9954 Bf6 >00:00:00.7 1,42 6 11688 Bf6 g6 hxg6 fxg6 Rg8 Rh7 Rxg6 >00:00:00.8 1,38 7 20050 Bf6 g6 hxg6 fxg6 Kg5 Rc8 Rxc8 Kxc8 >00:00:01.0 1,59 8 39534 Bf6 g6 hxg6 fxg6 Rd6 Ne7 Bxe7 Rxe7 >00:00:01.1 1,59 9 43182 Bf6 g6 hxg6 fxg6 Rd6 Ne7 Bxe7 Rxe7 >00:00:01.6 1,55 10 153484 Bf6 g6 hxg6 fxg6 Kg5 Rc8 Rd6 Re8 >00:00:02.6 1,49 11 357770 Bf6 g6 hxg6 fxg6 Kg5 Rc8 Rd7+ Ka6 >00:00:07.7 1,92 12 1644117 Bf6 g6 hxg6 fxg6 Kg5 Ka6 Kxg6 Ra7 >00:00:10.9 1,92 13 2441127 Bf6 g6 hxg6 fxg6 Kg5 Ka6 Kxg6 Ra7 >00:01:10.3 1,20 14 17895758 Bf6 gxf6 exf6 a3 Rd3 Kb8 Rxa3 Rc8 >00:03:03.5 0,90 15 47205076 Bf6 gxf6 exf6 a3 Rd3 Kb8 Rxa3 Rc8 >00:05:25.6 1,07 15 82628253 Ke4 Rc8 >00:07:03.6 1,09 15 107011010 Rd3 Rc8 >00:18:35.3 1,17 16 255898280 Rd3 Kc8 Rd6 Kb8 Bd8 Rc8 Rd7 > >However I presume the Q5T did not really see a win as the score goes down again >and the variations look a little bit off the mark from ply twelve on. It's a >pity. I don't know what really causes the evaluations from Q5T to go down again; >even if the evaluations are on simple speculative grounds alone it does not >explain that looking deeper Q5T doesn't like the moves any more. > >I tried it with Rebel Betazoid but I think to see a win is far over the horizon. >(Well, it seems Slater you've proven that is not true!) I don't claim I see >directly (or even indirectly) myself why this is won for white, I assume the >h-pawn can't be stopped? Passed pawns positions do not always get accurate >evals. > > >The rest is all not very interesting stuff. But I'm trying to see if my BETA_Z7G >plays positionally comparable to BETA9 so I'm putting it in anyway. > > >Rebel Betazoid personality > > BETA_Z7G > >00:00:00.1 0,71 1 4 Ke4 >00:00:00.1 0,71 2 111 Ke4 a3 >00:00:00.2 0,67 3 378 Ke4 a3 Rd1 >00:00:00.4 0,67 4 1679 Ke4 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 >00:00:00.5 0,63 5 3371 Ke4 Ne7 Bxe7 Rxe7 f4 a3 >00:00:00.6 0,63 6 9608 Ke4 Ka6 Rd3 Rc8 a3 >00:00:00.8 0,62 7 27087 Ke4 Ka6 a3 Ne7 h6 gxh6 Bxh6 >00:00:01.0 0,63 8 57361 Ke4 Ka6 a3 Ra7 Rd1 Ra8 Rd3 >00:00:01.7 0,58 9 174186 Ke4 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 Rd3 Rc8 Bd8 Ra8 >00:00:02.3 0,58 10 293631 Ke4 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 Rd1 Rc8 Bd8 a3 >00:00:04.0 0,62 11 678026 Ke4 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 Rd1 Rc8 Bd8 Rb8 >00:00:07.7 0,62 12 1563427 Ke4 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 Rd1 Rc8 Bd8 Rb8 >00:00:14.7 0,63 13 3333791 Ke4 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 Rd1 Rc8 a3 Rh8 >00:00:46.0 0,66 14 11304572 Ke4 Rc8 Rd1 Rg8 >00:02:11.2 0,66 15 33417498 Ke4 Rc8 Rd2 >00:05:32.3 0,63 16 85613317 Ke4 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 Rd1 Kc8 Be3 > >After entering 46.Bf6 -Ping! Another three dollars- gxf6 47. exf6 It seems most >computers think a move repetition is likely, or that the position seems a draw >anyway?! > >[D]3R4/1kr2p2/2p1pP2/1pP2n1P/pP3K2/8/P4P2/8 b - - 0 1 > >Output from Rebel BETA9: > > >00:00:00.1 1,53 1 4 a3 >00:00:00.1 0,24 2 124 a3 Kg5 >00:00:00.1 1,56 2 219 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 >00:00:00.2 0,86 3 460 Rc8 Rxc8 Kxc8 Kg5 Nd4 >00:00:00.3 0,68 4 871 Rc8 Rd7+ Ka6 >00:00:00.4 0,83 5 1948 Rc8 Rxc8 Kxc8 Kg5 Kd7 h6 Nxh6 Kxh6 >00:00:00.4 0,60 6 4226 Rc8 Rd7+ Ka6 >00:00:00.4 0,75 6 5445 a3 Kg5 Rc8 Rxc8 Kxc8 h6 Nxh6 Kxh6 >00:00:00.5 0,65 7 10910 a3 Kg5 Rc8 Rxc8 Kxc8 h6 Nxh6 Kxh6 >00:00:00.6 0,65 8 19564 a3 Kg5 Rc8 Rxc8 Kxc8 h6 Nxh6 Kxh6 >00:00:00.9 -0,38 9 58824 a3 Kg5 Ka7 h6 Nxh6 Kxh6 Kb7 Rd3 >00:00:01.0 0,05 9 92240 Rc8 Rd7+ Kb8 Rxf7 Rd8 Kg5 Rg8+ Kf4 >00:00:01.2 0,13 9 116394 Ka7 Kg5 Ka6 h6 Nxh6 >00:00:01.4 0,07 10 170954 Ka7 Kg5 Ka6 h6 Nxh6 >00:00:02.5 -0,24 11 435244 Ka7 Kg5 Kb7 h6 Nxh6 Kxh6 a3 Rd3 >00:00:03.8 0,14 11 756248 Rc8 Rd7+ Ka6 >00:00:06.3 0,24 12 1401144 Rc8 Rd7+ Ka6 >00:00:13.0 0,24 13 3121279 Rc8 Rd7+ Ka6 >00:00:33.2 0,00 14 8439792 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 Rd8 Ka6 Ra8+ Kb7 Rh8 >00:01:19.6 0,00 15 20570646 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 Rd8 Ka6 Ra8+ Kb7 Rh8 >00:02:48.1 0,00 16 44004962 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 Rd8 Ka6 Rd2 Ra7 Rd8 >00:27:52.1 -0,74 17 433557230 Rc8 Rxc8 Kxc8 Kg5 Nd4 h6 Nf3+ Kh5 >(This was maybe one, or several, "fail lows"? Lots of nodes needed for this last >iteration) > >Output from Rebel Betazoid > >00:00:00.1 1,56 1 4 a3 >00:00:00.1 0,27 2 124 a3 Kg5 >00:00:00.1 1,62 2 216 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 >00:00:00.2 0,89 3 458 Rc8 Rxc8 Kxc8 Kg5 Nd4 >00:00:00.3 0,72 4 869 Rc8 Rd7+ Ka6 Rxf7 >00:00:00.4 0,87 5 1825 Rc8 Rxc8 Kxc8 Kg5 Kd7 h6 Nxh6 Kxh6 >00:00:00.5 0,60 6 3148 Rc8 Rd7+ Ka6 Rxf7 Rd8 Rc7 >00:00:00.5 0,78 6 3941 a3 Kg5 Rc8 Rxc8 Kxc8 h6 Nxh6 Kxh6 >00:00:00.5 0,71 7 7229 a3 Kg5 Rc8 Rxc8 Kxc8 h6 Nxh6 Kxh6 >00:00:00.6 0,64 8 18753 a3 Rf8 Rd7 Kg5 Nd4 h6 Rd5+ Kf4 >00:00:01.0 -0,31 9 76335 a3 Kg5 Ka6 h6 Nxh6 Kxh6 Ra7 Rb8 >00:00:01.1 0,08 9 103716 Rc8 Rd7+ Kb8 Rxf7 Rd8 Kg5 Rg8+ Kf4 >00:00:01.2 0,12 9 139081 Ka7 Kg5 Ka6 Rb8 Nd4 h6 Rd7 Ra8+ >00:00:01.5 0,10 10 186984 Ka7 Kg5 Rb7 h6 Nxh6 Kxh6 Rc7 Kg5 >00:00:01.8 0,10 10 258429 a3 >00:00:01.8 0,10 10 186984 Ka7 Kg5 Rb7 h6 Nxh6 Kxh6 Rc7 Kg5 >00:00:02.4 0,00 11 391452 Ka7 Kg5 Kb7 Kf4 >00:00:03.3 0,17 11 613911 Rc8 Rd7+ Ka6 Rxf7 Nd4 Ke5 Nc2 Kxe6 >00:00:05.5 0,27 12 1183359 Rc8 Rd7+ Ka6 Rxf7 Nd4 Ke5 Nc2 Rd7 >00:00:12.4 0,27 13 2976833 Rc8 Rd7+ Ka6 Rxf7 Nd4 Ke5 Nc2 Rd7 >00:00:36.0 0,00 14 9170133 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 Rd8 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 Rd8 >00:01:39.4 0,00 15 25651081 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 Rd8 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 Rd8 >00:03:20.2 0,00 16 52212716 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 Rd8 Rc8 Rd7+ Rc7 Rd8 >00:10:16.6 -1,86 17 161093675 Rc8 Rxc8 Kxc8 Kg5 Nd4 h6 >00:33:57.7 0,00 17 524477823 Nh4 Kg5 (Hmmm) >01:00:56.4 -0,32 18 938835882 Nh4 Kg5
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