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Subject: Maybe with a supercomputer...Re: Rebel and passed pawns

Author: Eelco de Groot

Date: 10:10:02 08/03/03

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A faster computer or much longer timecontrol, or another searchmethod maybe
would have helped a little to see Black's advantage too? I picked the position
after 47...,Qd2 to see if some Rebel personalities can see the danger. Only
after 15 minutes BETA_Z7G sees that Bf1 is not very promising anymore, -2.36. I
did not let it run much longer, about four moves of that ply which did not get a
higher score. I think BETA9 is not doing very well here either, at least not on
my computer, it takes ages to complete evaluation of the first move f6+ of
iteration 15.

After 14 hours I pulled out the plug, iteration 13 gave its result for f6+ of
-1,46 after about 2 1/2 hours (28Mb TT, Celeron 500MHz). As this maybe has
something to do with (check?) extensions in this position I thought I'd mention
it.
Also BETA9 is different from BETA_Z7g here, so maybe there is some effect of
Singular Extensions in these complicated positions with heavy pieces, passed
pawns and delaying checks, because of forced moves? I don't really know.

This game I think is about pattern recognition where humans are just better than
most programs seeing clearly that a pawn can't be stopped in any way although
there are still heavy pieces around.

Position after 47. ..,Qd2. How long to see that the position is bad for White.

[D]1r6/4kp2/8/5P2/1p5R/1P2p3/P2q2BP/6RK w - - 4 1


BETA_Z7G

00:00:00.4	0,15	1	12	Rh7 Qxa2
00:00:00.5	0,40	1	67	Rc4 Qxa2
00:00:00.5	0,48	1	98	a4
00:00:00.5	-1,25	2	231	a4 bxa3ep
00:00:00.5	0,13	2	768	Rc4 e2 Rcc1
00:00:00.7	-0,05	3	2655	Rc4 e2 Rc7+ Kd6 Rc6+
00:00:00.7	0,02	3	4199	Bf3 Qf2 Rf4
00:00:00.7	0,16	3	5156	Re4+ Kf6 Bh3
00:00:00.8	-0,11	4	6995	Re4+ Kf6 Rc4 Kxf5
00:00:00.8	-0,03	4	9287	Bf3 Qf2 Re4+ Kd6 Rd1+
00:00:01.0	0,06	5	21520	Bf3 Qf2 Re4+ Kd6 Bg2
00:00:01.3	-0,39	6	49830	Bf3 Qf2 Rf4 Rh8 Rg2 Qf1+ Rg1
00:00:01.4	-0,22	6	77807	Re4+ Kf6 h4 Rg8 Rf4 Qxa2
00:00:02.4	-0,34	7	263136	Re4+ Kf6 Bf3 Qf2 Bg4 Rh8 Rg2 Qf1+
00:00:04.0	-0,26	7	599872	f6+ Kxf6 Rf4+ Ke7 Rgf1 Rf8 Re4+ Kd7
00:00:04.5	-0,15	7	708004	Bf1 Kd6 Bc4 Ra8 Rh6+ Kc7
00:00:06.0	-0,31	8	1029754	Bf1 Kf6 Bc4 Rc8 Rh6+
00:00:13.6	-0,69	9	2738723	Bf1 Kf6 Rg2 Qd1 Kg1 Kxf5 Rc4
00:00:32.5	-0,63	9	7006373	Re4+ Kf6 Rc4 e2 Rcc1 Re8
00:00:34.8	-0,34	9	7539921	Bf3 Rc8 Re4+ Kf6 Reg4 Qxa2 Rxb4 Qf2
00:00:51.2	-1,15	10	11418968	Bf3 Rc8 Rhg4 Rc1 Rxc1 Qxc1+
00:01:03.4	-0,92	10	14306832	Re4+ Kf6 Rc4 e2 Rcc1 Re8
00:01:12.0	-0,41	10	16355680	Bf1 Kf6 Bc4 Ke5 Rh7 Ra8 Bxf7 Rxa2
00:02:09.8	-0,68	11	30009589	Bf1 Kf6 Rh6+ Ke5 Rg2 Qd1
00:04:25.1	-0,80	12	62289403	Bf1 Kf6 Rg2 Qd1 Kg1 Rc8
00:15:02.2	-2,36	13	214935337	Bf1 Kf6 Rg2 Qd1 Rh6+ Kxf5 Rg1 e2


BETA9

00:00:00.4	-0,22	1	12	Rh7 Qxa2
00:00:00.4	-0,20	1	32	Rh6 Qxa2
00:00:00.4	0,07	1	72	Rc4 Qxa2
00:00:00.4	0,14	1	111	a4
00:00:00.4	-1,62	2	376	a4 bxa3ep
00:00:00.4	-0,23	2	947	Rc4 Rh8
00:00:00.6	-0,41	3	2931	Rc4 e2 Rc7+ Kd6 Rc6+
00:00:00.6	-0,34	3	4565	Bf3 Qf2 Rf4 Kf6 h4
00:00:00.8	-0,38	4	9696	Bf3 Qf2 Re4+ Kd6 Rd1+
00:00:01.0	-0,36	5	24142	Bf3 Qf2 Re4+ Kf6 Bg4 Rg8 Rd1 Rxg4
00:00:01.3	-0,51	6	59052	Bf3 Qf2 Re4+ Kf8 Bg2 Ra8
00:00:01.9	-0,70	7	166793	Bf3 Qf2 Re4+ Kf6 Bg4 Rh8 Rg2 Qf1+
00:00:04.1	-0,73	8	623891	Bf3 Qf2 Re4+ Kf6 Bg4 Rh8 h3 Ra8
00:00:08.1	-0,80	9	1530446	Bf3 Qf2 Re4+ Kf8 Bd1 Rd8 Reg4 e2
00:00:16.1	-0,75	9	3356544	Bf1 Kd6
00:00:24.3	-0,91	10	5262158	Bf1 Kd6
00:01:07.9	-1,00	11	15521542	Bf1 Kd6
00:02:28.5	-1,48	12	34718733	Bf1 Kd6
00:12:26.9	-1,46	12	176685518	f6+ Kxf6 Rf4+ Ke6 Bf3 f5 Rg2 Qc1+
00:31:36.5	-1,46	13	454666870	f6+ Kxf6 Rf4+ Ke6
02:36:31.2	-1,46	14	-2019162818	f6+ Kxf6 Rf4+ Ke6 Re4+ Kd7 Rf1

I assume now a fail low but I can't tell exactly, the nodecounter only gives
information when there is a new result, there is still a kernel using 100% of
the processortime, so I assume Rebel is still silently calculating its demise..


For completeness sake Q5T personality, score about -2 quickly but that does not
say much about winning or losing position as scores for this personality can be
very optimistic or pessimistic.

Y5B/Q5T

00:00:00.9	-0,87	1	50	Rh7
00:00:00.9	-0,53	1	95	Rc4
00:00:00.9	-0,19	1	132	a4
00:00:01.0	-2,88	2	290	a4 bxa3ep Re4+ Kd7
00:00:01.0	-1,37	2	703	Rc4 e2 Rc7+ Kd6
00:00:01.2	-1,37	3	24227	Rc4 e2 Rc7+ Kd6 Rc6+ Ke7 Rc7+ Kd6
00:00:01.5	-1,35	4	69696	Rc4 Rh8 Rgc1 Kd6
00:00:01.9	-1,00	5	140757	Rc4 e2 Rcc1 Rc8 Rce1 Rc2 Bf3 Qe3
00:00:02.6	-1,50	6	267439	Rc4 Rg8 f6+ Kxf6 Rf4+ Ke7 h4
00:00:06.1	-2,21	7	1102544	Rc4 Rg8 f6+ Kd8 a4 bxa3ep b4
00:00:39.7	-2,12	7	9367567	f6+ Kxf6 Rf4+ Ke6 Bf3 Rc8
00:00:48.9	-1,95	7	11629964	Re4+ Kf6 Rc4 e2 Rc6+
00:00:49.2	-1,83	7	11695613	Bf3 Qf2 f6+ Kxf6 Rf4+ Ke7 Rg2 Qe1+
00:00:49.7	-1,83	7	11790647	Bf1
00:00:50.2	-1,33	7	11907911	Bf1 Kd6
00:00:51.0	-1,40	8	12093286	Bf1 Kd6
00:01:10.5	-1,50	9	16882609	Bf1 Kf6 Bc4 Ke5 Rh7 e2
00:02:34.1	-1,71	10	37875806	Bf1 Kd6
00:06:47.9	-1,99	11	101849529	Bf1 Rc8 Rhg4 Rc1 R4g2 Rxf1 Rxf1







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