Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: ot. is the gcc 3.3 compiler just as fast as microsoft's now?? nt.

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 18:08:47 08/06/03

Go up one level in this thread


On August 06, 2003 at 12:08:07, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:

>On August 05, 2003 at 13:02:50, Albert Silver wrote:
>
>>On August 05, 2003 at 11:15:41, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On August 05, 2003 at 10:45:41, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 05, 2003 at 09:53:26, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 05, 2003 at 09:24:07, ERIQ wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>No.
>>>>
>>>>I have to disagree. I have performed a number of experiments and found msvc
>>>>faster some of the time and gcc faster some of the time. It all depends on a
>>>>number of factors that are not completely predictable.
>>>>
>>>>The experiments consisted of simulataneously dropping CD copies of each compiler
>>>>from the roof of my home and observing which CD impacted the ground first. They
>>>>never seemed to impact the ground at exactly the same time, but there was no
>>>>clear favorite either.
>>>
>>>
>>>:)
>>
>>Joking aside, how much slower on average is gcc compared to msvc, and more
>>importantly what are the final results like between the two?
>>
>>                                       Albert
>
>K7 2.127Ghz
>
>PLEASE NOTE THAT MY EXPERIMENTS ARE DETERMINISTIC. Crafty is NOT deterministic,
>though i bet for bitboards at 32 bits cpu's you better can chose for buggy intel
>c++.

(1) I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.  If you don't use
the parallel search, crafty is _perfectly_ deterministic.  Time after time.
Please post an example to support your claim it is not.

(2) Intel c++ is _not_ "buggy".  It works just fine.

>
>GCC is faster nearly 1% than msvc6 sp5 procpack
>
>Note that the procpak for msvc is really 7% faster at K7 for DIEP.
>
>this is gcc with PGO of course. so it takes a long period of time to compile
>it when compared to msvc. the default compile i therefore do with msvc.
>
>intel c++ is not deterministically giving same result. So i have not tested
>latest 7.1 version extensively.
>
>I do know that it is superior at itanium processors compared to gcc. And a lot.
>We talk about 88k nps versus 72k nps difference. that's like 22% or so.
>
>However there is problems with icc. I do not trust it because of the many bugs
>in the past. So it has to proof itself deterministically. It is not giving
>deterministically same search.

It certainly does.  At least for those of us that know what we are doing.

>
>Please note that crafty does not have such debug features.
>
>Bob can say what he wants, but he does not have same testbeds i have.

Hint:  That is a _good_ thing.  _not_ a bad thing.  "MY" testbed didn't show me
a consistent speedup >2.0 for two processors.  For just one example.


>
>I can create extensive logfiles which include all evaluations all nodes searched
>and all alfa and beta values and so on. Huge logfiles.


SO can I.

See the "tr" command.


>
>If that gives a 1 to 1 file compare then it is deterministically the same of
>course.
>
>However a problem is that bugs in intel c++ especially happen when you have
>optimizations turned on. If you have 'printf' only as debug option then you will
>not find the bug, because the printf avoids the register problems.
>
>what i do is i put the stuff into shared memory. only after the run i
>verbose print the stuff to a logfile.
>
>Even that is already risky with intel c++ to proof that it is bugfree.
>
>Currently it isn't showing the 100% same thing simply.
>
>there is issues with it always going for stupid instructions that involve the
>mmx/sse2 part. i do not want to use them. i want to use 32 bits registers!
>
>the difference is that floating point is 80 bits. when put in MMX that is just
>64 bits. So you lose 16 bits.
>
>That's what icc is continuesly doing.
>
>So i go strip out that code and then again retest it deterministically.
>
>Till then all i know is that in nodes a second it is a bit slower. not much
>than the above 2 compilers.
>
>Best regards,
>Vincent



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.