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Subject: Re: getting insight

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 16:36:21 08/07/03

Go up one level in this thread


On August 06, 2003 at 11:53:41, Eugene Nalimov wrote:

>Ok Vincent,
>
>I am waiting for
>(1) Where I wrote that NT kernel haz *zero* assembler in it? Of course it has
>some -- in task switching, in interrupt handling, in CRT, etc. But that is 0.1%
>of total *kernel* size, much less of total NT size. So for all means, including
>maintainance and porting to other architectures, it is written in C/C++.
>(2) I am still waiting for proof that some DLL is written in the assembler. I
>didn't see it, or probably I did not understand...
>
>Thanks,
>Eugene

I notice that 24+ hours later you are _still_ waiting.  You will probably
still be waiting when Christmas gets here.  :)


>
>On August 06, 2003 at 07:09:09, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On August 05, 2003 at 04:58:39, Bo Persson wrote:
>>
>>Eugenes first posting suggested there is ZERO assembly inside:
>>
>>Later postings he has come back to that when he finally checked out some
>>of the source code. I wonder how a compiler department could possibly access
>>x86 source code of the NT kernel. I bet they do not have it there at his
>>itanium department...
>>
>>-----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Posted by Eugene Nalimov (Profile) on August 03, 2003 at 16:52:17:
>>
>>In Reply to: glory of windows posted by Vincent Diepeveen on August 03, 2003 at
>>15:22:19:
>>
>>
>>Sorry, I'll be clearer this time:
>>
>>(Talking about claim that Windows kernel is written in the assembler)
>>
>>SARCASM ON:
>>
>>This is definitely so, especially if you take into account that NT/2k/XP
>>variants were commercially sold not only for x86, but for PowerPC, MIPS, Alpha,
>>and IA-64 CPUs. Of course MS wrote 5 kernels in the different assembler
>>languages...
>>
>>SARCASM OFF.
>>
>>Vincent is the only source from which I hear that fact. And if I have to choose
>>between Vincent's words and NT source code on one of my developer's machine,
>>I'll trust the later...
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Eugene
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Eugene
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>On August 04, 2003 at 11:26:36, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 04, 2003 at 09:43:40, Bo Persson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Ok, we agree that there is "some assembly required". I can see that it might be
>>>>>0.1%, or 0.5%. or even 1.0% of the code base. I wouldn't call that "so much", or
>>>>>see that it would be a problem to move it to x86-64 when they have already tried
>>>>>it out for Alpha, Itanium, and others.
>>>>>
>>>>>If you think otherwise, fine.
>>>>
>>>>you are just guessing a % here. the entire kernel is assembly though.
>>>
>>>Yes, I am just guessing here. Unlike Eugene I don't have the source at hand.
>>>
>>>Let's call it an "estimate", and not a guess. You pointed out that kernel32.dll
>>>didn't look like C code. I don't know that, but can see that it is a small file
>>>and even though it contains a lot of text resources, it is still only 0.1% of
>>>the total file sizes of my /winnt directory.
>>>
>>>So I made a guess, that maybe even 5 or 10 times that much could be assembly
>>>code. It would still be no more than 1% of the total size. I don't call that
>>>"much", or "the entire kernel".
>>>
>>>>
>>>>let's be clear. i'm not saying that the entire kernel being assembly is a
>>>>problem to move it. seemingly reading nalimov's words correctly they have a C
>>>>version too, which for the itanium i can consider as being a good idea. writing
>>>>assembly for it is a horror.
>>>>
>>>>For the x86-64 i bet they want an assembly version too, because the platform is
>>>>going to be very important.
>>>
>>>Or they could make sure that they have one of the best compilers available.
>>>Guess what Eugene is working on. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>I once got my first copy of the MS C compiler with the Windows 1.0 beta. Wonder
>>>why!
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>linux does not have such problems. there is hardly software working for it!
>>>
>>>:-)
>>>
>>>
>>>Bo Persson
>>>bop2@telia.com



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