Author: Harald Faber
Date: 00:43:05 08/10/03
Go up one level in this thread
On August 10, 2003 at 02:24:47, Uri Blass wrote: >On August 09, 2003 at 19:11:16, Harald Faber wrote: > >>On August 09, 2003 at 05:55:43, Tony Hedlund wrote: >> >>>How can J8 allow game 14 to end as a draw? >> >> >>This is no serious question, isn't it? >>It has been posted and mentioned approx. 1,000,000 times. It is the problem of >>incomplete tablebases. AFAIK you/SSDF uses the "Fritz Endgame Turbo". Based on >>the Chessbase marketing it consists of 4 CD-roms with "the most important >>endgame tablebases". Based on what you saw in this game, what many many others - >>include me - have seen in similar positions, it is crap. >>Let me ask you a question. If your answer is yes, do I win a price? >>Here is the US-$1,000,000 question: >>Are you missing at least one of these files in your tablebase-directory? >> >>kqbkp.nbb.emd >>kqbkp.nbw.emd >>kqbkn.nbb.emd >>kqbkn.nbw.emd >>kqbkb.nbb.emd >>kqbkb.nbw.emd >>kqbkr.nbb.emd >>kqbkr.nbw.emd >>kqbkq.nbb.emd >>kqbkq.nbw.emd >> >> >>If you had them all(!), Junior 8 would have mated. > >Did you look at the game? Uri, how else would I know of the concretely missing tablebases? BTW I expand my list with kqkpp.nbb.emd and kqkpp.nbw.emd. ;-) See the reason below. ;-) >Junior8 blundered in a position when there were 6 pieces in the board >and there was no winning capture that leads directly to tablebase position >(the only possible capture in the game QxP could lead to a draw and Junior8 did >not draw because of playing it) OK, Uri, the great "non-believer". I loaded this game into MY Junior 8. Guess what? Plays: 89.Be5 #7/8. Shall I post the mate lines MY Junior with ALL 5-man plays? A) 89...Kh7 90.Qxg7# B) 89...Kh6 90.Qxg7+ Kh5 91.Bf6 e5 92.Qg5# C) 89...Kh5 90.Qxg7 Kh4 91.Qg6 Kh3 92.Qg3# D) 89...Kg5 90.Qf3 and now 1. 90...Kg6 91.Qg4+ Kh6 (91...Kf7 92.Qf4+ Ke7 93.Qg5+ Kd7 94.Qxg7+ Ke8 95.Kc6 Kd8 96.Qf8# etc.) 92.Qxg7+ Kh5 93.Bf6 e5 94.Qg5# 2. 90...Kh6 91.Qg4 g5 92.Bf6 Kg6 93.Qxg5+ Kf7 94.Qg7+ Ke8 95.Qe7# 3. 90...Kh4 91.Qg3+ Kh5 92.Bf4 and 93.Qg5# Junior 8 also plays 90.Be5+! If black takes the bishop, voila! Perfect TB position kqkpp. Do you NOW believe that it HAS to do with missing tablebases? >Here is the final position > >[D]2Q5/1K4p1/4pk2/8/8/8/7B/8 w - - 0 92 > >Are you sure that the problem is a tablebases problem? YES!!! Such games have been posted about 1,000,000 times which cannot be reproduced with a COMPLETE set of tbs. >I think that the problem is the engine and I also do not agree that the ssdf has >to give the engines all the tablebases because a good engine should know to play >with part of the tablebases. > >Uri Uri, you have always a special own point of view, but this problem of missing tablebases is not Junior-only. Maybe Tony can try some other engine on this game too?!
This page took 0.01 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.