Author: Tony Hedlund
Date: 01:20:35 08/10/03
Go up one level in this thread
On August 10, 2003 at 03:43:05, Harald Faber wrote: >On August 10, 2003 at 02:24:47, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On August 09, 2003 at 19:11:16, Harald Faber wrote: >> >>>On August 09, 2003 at 05:55:43, Tony Hedlund wrote: >>> >>>>How can J8 allow game 14 to end as a draw? >>> >>> >>>This is no serious question, isn't it? >>>It has been posted and mentioned approx. 1,000,000 times. It is the problem of >>>incomplete tablebases. AFAIK you/SSDF uses the "Fritz Endgame Turbo". Based on >>>the Chessbase marketing it consists of 4 CD-roms with "the most important >>>endgame tablebases". Based on what you saw in this game, what many many others - >>>include me - have seen in similar positions, it is crap. >>>Let me ask you a question. If your answer is yes, do I win a price? >>>Here is the US-$1,000,000 question: >>>Are you missing at least one of these files in your tablebase-directory? >>> >>>kqbkp.nbb.emd >>>kqbkp.nbw.emd >>>kqbkn.nbb.emd >>>kqbkn.nbw.emd >>>kqbkb.nbb.emd >>>kqbkb.nbw.emd >>>kqbkr.nbb.emd >>>kqbkr.nbw.emd >>>kqbkq.nbb.emd >>>kqbkq.nbw.emd >>> >>> >>>If you had them all(!), Junior 8 would have mated. >> >>Did you look at the game? > > >Uri, >how else would I know of the concretely missing tablebases? >BTW I expand my list with kqkpp.nbb.emd and kqkpp.nbw.emd. ;-) >See the reason below. ;-) > > >>Junior8 blundered in a position when there were 6 pieces in the board >>and there was no winning capture that leads directly to tablebase position >>(the only possible capture in the game QxP could lead to a draw and Junior8 did >>not draw because of playing it) > > >OK, Uri, the great "non-believer". >I loaded this game into MY Junior 8. Guess what? >Plays: 89.Be5 #7/8. >Shall I post the mate lines MY Junior with ALL 5-man plays? >A) 89...Kh7 90.Qxg7# >B) 89...Kh6 90.Qxg7+ Kh5 91.Bf6 e5 92.Qg5# >C) 89...Kh5 90.Qxg7 Kh4 91.Qg6 Kh3 92.Qg3# >D) 89...Kg5 90.Qf3 >and now >1. 90...Kg6 91.Qg4+ Kh6 (91...Kf7 92.Qf4+ Ke7 93.Qg5+ Kd7 94.Qxg7+ Ke8 95.Kc6 >Kd8 96.Qf8# etc.) 92.Qxg7+ Kh5 93.Bf6 e5 94.Qg5# >2. 90...Kh6 91.Qg4 g5 92.Bf6 Kg6 93.Qxg5+ Kf7 94.Qg7+ Ke8 95.Qe7# >3. 90...Kh4 91.Qg3+ Kh5 92.Bf4 and 93.Qg5# > >Junior 8 also plays 90.Be5+! >If black takes the bishop, voila! Perfect TB position kqkpp. >Do you NOW believe that it HAS to do with missing tablebases? > > >>Here is the final position >> >>[D]2Q5/1K4p1/4pk2/8/8/8/7B/8 w - - 0 92 >> >>Are you sure that the problem is a tablebases problem? > > >YES!!! Such games have been posted about 1,000,000 times which cannot be >reproduced with a COMPLETE set of tbs. > > >>I think that the problem is the engine and I also do not agree that the ssdf has >>to give the engines all the tablebases because a good engine should know to play >>with part of the tablebases. >> >>Uri I agree Uri. This endgame everybody that can play chess wins with white. Tony > >Uri, >you have always a special own point of view, but this problem of missing >tablebases is not Junior-only. Maybe Tony can try some other engine on this game >too?!
This page took 0.01 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.