Author: Harald Faber
Date: 07:43:46 08/10/03
Go up one level in this thread
On August 10, 2003 at 08:45:35, Peter Berger wrote: >On August 09, 2003 at 19:11:16, Harald Faber wrote: > >>On August 09, 2003 at 05:55:43, Tony Hedlund wrote: >> >>>How can J8 allow game 14 to end as a draw? >> >> >>This is no serious question, isn't it? >>It has been posted and mentioned approx. 1,000,000 times. It is the problem of >>incomplete tablebases. AFAIK you/SSDF uses the "Fritz Endgame Turbo". Based on >>the Chessbase marketing it consists of 4 CD-roms with "the most important >>endgame tablebases". Based on what you saw in this game, what many many others - >>include me - have seen in similar positions, it is crap. > >I don't want to join the war :), just want to add a similar problem that could >be an issue with Chess Tiger, even when using a complete set. > >Chess Tiger has a unique way of announcing mates by not counting the mating move >in mate announcements. At least when using the Fritz aka ChessBase interface a >move taking material and entering a 5 piece ending won't look attractive as >doing it one move later can look more attractive for the engine. > >An example: >[D]8/5k2/3K4/6p1/4R3/2q2P2/8/8 b - - 0 1 > >Here Tiger prefers Qa3+ or Qd3+ over Qxf3, because it believes Qxf3 is a >miserable mate in 16 when Qa3 or Qd3 are mate in 15, counting the Tiger way. I >couldn't check with Chess Tiger 15 for CB as I don't own it. I am not sure if >this could lead to a similar problem as with missing tablebases, but it is >possible. It could be. ;-) I checked it here with a fresh Tiger installation: 00:00:00.0 Mate in 16 7 4549 Qxf3 Re7+ Kf6 Re6+ Kf5 00:00:00.0 Mate in 15 7 6004 Qd3+ Ke5 Qxf3 Rg4 00:00:00.0 Mate in 15 8 15849 Qd3+ Ke5 Qxf3 Rg4 00:00:00.0 Mate in 15 9 44019 Qd3+ Ke5 Qxf3 Rg4 00:00:00.2 Mate in 15 10 128162 Qd3+ Ke5 Qxf3 Rg4 00:00:00.6 Mate in 15 11 376917 Qd3+ Ke5 Qxf3 Rg4 00:00:01.5 Mate in 15 12 1005614 Qd3+ Ke5 Qxf3 Rg4 00:00:05.7 Mate in 15 13 3440978 Qd3+ Ke5 Qxf3 Rg4 00:00:33.6 Mate in 15 14 10320979 Qd3+ Ke5 Qxf3 Rg4 >It is a well-known problem that users often won't use complete sets of >tablebases and one easy to work around. I don't understand why this is not done >for the commercial engines. > >Peter I don't undestand so many more things in this issue as you can see in the whole thread... ;-)
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