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Subject: Re: Funny pos

Author: Drexel,Michael

Date: 09:14:53 08/10/03

Go up one level in this thread


On August 10, 2003 at 05:19:56, Uri Blass wrote:

>On August 10, 2003 at 04:23:56, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>
>>On August 09, 2003 at 20:45:47, John Merlino wrote:
>>
>>>On August 09, 2003 at 17:25:47, Vincent Lejeune wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 09, 2003 at 15:38:47, Yar wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On August 09, 2003 at 15:16:21, John Merlino wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On August 09, 2003 at 15:05:39, Yar wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hello !
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>What is your engine says about this pos ?
>>>>>>>[D] r1r3kb/pp2pp2/1q1p1npB/6Q1/2nNPNP1/PP3P2/2P5/2KR3R b - - 0 20
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Have a nice day
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Yar
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Not sure what the best move is, but Chessmaster 9000, on a P4-2.4, seems to
>>>>>>think that White has a winning position, and Black's best move is Qa5:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
>>>>>>0:00	1/3	-0.09	10262		20...Qa6 21.a4 Rc5 22.Nf5
>>>>>>0:00	1/4	0.05	13991		20...Qa6 21.bxc4 Qxa3+ 22.Kb1 Rxc4
>>>>>>					23.Qb5
>>>>>>0:00	1/4	-0.04	15233		20...Ne5 21.Qh4 Qa5 22.Bg5 Qxa3+
>>>>>>					23.Kb1
>>>>>>0:00	1/5	-0.48	59871		20...Ne5 21.Kb1 Rc3 22.Nd5 Nxd5
>>>>>>					23.exd5
>>>>>>0:01	1/6	1.23	171470		20...Ne5 21.Bf8 Rxf8 22.Nf5 Nh5
>>>>>>					23.Nxe7+ Kh7 24.Nxh5
>>>>>>0:02	1/6	0.66	341051		20...Qa6 21.a4 Ne5 22.Qh4 Nxf3
>>>>>>					23.Nxf3 Qc6 24.Rh2 Qxe4
>>>>>>0:04	1/6	0.40	721414		20...Qc5 21.Qxc5 dxc5 22.Nde2 Ne5
>>>>>>					23.g5 Nfd7 24.Nd5
>>>>>>0:04	1/7	0.40	767801		20...Qc5 21.Qxc5 dxc5 22.Nde2 Ne5
>>>>>>					23.g5 Nfd7 24.Nd5
>>>>>>0:10	1/8	0.51	1681398		20...Qc5 21.Qxc5 dxc5 22.Nde2 Ne5
>>>>>>					23.g5 Nfd7 24.Nd5 Re8 25.Rhf1
>>>>>>0:27	1/8	0.43	4813745		20...Qa5 21.Qxa5 Nxa5 22.Nfe2 e5
>>>>>>					23.Bd2 Rc5 24.b4 Rcc8 25.g5 Nc4
>>>>>>					26.gxf6 exd4
>>>>>>0:51	1/9	1.34	8887359		20...Qa5 21.bxc4 Qxa3+ 22.Kd2 Nxe4+
>>>>>>					23.fxe4 Bf6 24.Qd5 e5 25.Nb5 Qb4+
>>>>>>					26.c3 Qb2+ 27.Kd3 exf4 28.Qxb7
>>>>>>4:05	1/10	1.56	43122326	20...Qa5 21.bxc4 Qxa3+ 22.Kd2 Nxe4+
>>>>>>					23.fxe4 Bf6 24.Qd5 e5 25.Nb5 Qb4+
>>>>>>					26.Kd3 exf4 27.Bxf4 Rc5 28.Qxb7
>>>>>>					Qxc4+ 29.Ke3
>>>>>>
>>>>>>jm
>>>>>John,
>>>>>
>>>>>This is mate i wonder just how many moves ?
>>>>
>>>>The eval continue to rise, may be it will find the mate after some hours
>>>>
>>>>CM9000-SKR (Barton 2800+)
>>>>
>>>>Time	Depth	Score	Positions	Moves
>>>>0:33	1/9	0.90	8528166		20...Qa5 21.bxc4 Qxa3+ 22.Kd2 Nxe4+
>>>>					23.fxe4 Bf6 24.Qd5 e5 25.Nb5 Qb4+
>>>>					26.Ke2 exf4 27.Nxd6
>>>>1:38	1/10	1.02	25344838	20...Qa5 21.bxc4 Qxa3+ 22.Kd2 Nxe4+
>>>>					23.fxe4 Bf6 24.Qd5 e5 25.Nb5 Qb4+
>>>>					26.Kd3 exf4 27.Bxf4 Rc5 28.Qxb7
>>>>					Qxc4+ 29.Ke3
>>>>4:55	1/11	1.78	79407086	20...Qa5 21.bxc4 Qxa3+ 22.Kd2 Nxe4+
>>>>					23.fxe4 Bxd4 24.Nd5 Re8 25.Nxe7+
>>>>					Rxe7 26.Qxe7 Qc3+ 27.Ke2 Qxc2+
>>>>					28.Rd2 Qxc4+ 29.Rd3 Qb4 30.Bd2 Qb6
>>>>22:43	1/12	2.18	377487007	20...Qa5 21.bxc4 Qxa3+ 22.Kd2 Nxe4+
>>>>					23.fxe4 Bf6 24.Qd5 Qb4+ 25.c3 Qb2+
>>>>					26.Kd3 Rc5 27.Rb1 Qa2 28.Ra1 Qb2
>>>
>>>There may be some confusion. Yar seems to be claiming that Shredder stated that
>>>BLACK has the mate in 58 moves. At least, that's what I'm assuming because it is
>>>Black to move and Yar said "mate in 58".
>>>
>>>However, Chessmaster is saying that WHITE is winning (positive scores always
>>>favor White in the CM GUI).
>>>
>>>I am not at all convinced that Shredder's announcement of mate is accurate. In
>>>particular, I would like to see the PV (all 115 plies of it!).
>>
>>Of course you are right and it is not accurate. I saw this quite often in
>>Analysis mode.
>>#62,#68,...
>>This is just some flaw in the program.
>>
>>Michael
>
>I see no reason for programs who say mate in 58 to see everything.

hehe, isn't it somewhat weird to announce a mate in 58 if you dont see
everything?

>
>A program can say it when it knows based on its chess knowledge that it is mate
>in at most 58.
>
>For example a program may know that if the position is no stalemate and it has a
>queen and the opponent has only king then it is mate in at most 20 and claims
>mate in 20 even if it does not see a forced mate by search.
>
>I know of no program that does it but I see nothing wrong with doing it.
>

I am talking about ordinary middlegame positions, not about endgames.

Who cares about Bugs and wrong Mate announcements in Analysis mode?

Chessbase obviously not.

Michael

>Uri



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