Author: Uri Blass
Date: 00:04:55 08/11/03
Go up one level in this thread
On August 11, 2003 at 01:36:45, Harald Faber wrote: >On August 10, 2003 at 13:57:00, Amir Ban wrote: > >>On August 09, 2003 at 19:11:16, Harald Faber wrote: >> >>>On August 09, 2003 at 05:55:43, Tony Hedlund wrote: >>> >>>>How can J8 allow game 14 to end as a draw? >>> >>> >>>This is no serious question, isn't it? >>>It has been posted and mentioned approx. 1,000,000 times. It is the problem of >>>incomplete tablebases. AFAIK you/SSDF uses the "Fritz Endgame Turbo". Based on >>>the Chessbase marketing it consists of 4 CD-roms with "the most important >>>endgame tablebases". Based on what you saw in this game, what many many others - >>>include me - have seen in similar positions, it is crap. >>>Let me ask you a question. If your answer is yes, do I win a price? >>>Here is the US-$1,000,000 question: >>>Are you missing at least one of these files in your tablebase-directory? >>> >>>kqbkp.nbb.emd >>>kqbkp.nbw.emd >>>kqbkn.nbb.emd >>>kqbkn.nbw.emd >>>kqbkb.nbb.emd >>>kqbkb.nbw.emd >>>kqbkr.nbb.emd >>>kqbkr.nbw.emd >>>kqbkq.nbb.emd >>>kqbkq.nbw.emd >>> >>> >>>If you had them all(!), Junior 8 would have mated. >>> >>>Don't you think it is time to consider >>>a) adding the missing 5-man files or >>>b) kick the existing 5-man? >>> >>> >> >>I don't understand this explanation. Are you able to recreate this by omitting >>some 5-man files ? > > >Didn't try it. Have removed the files above from the tb path now but also cannot >reproduce. Maybe some (more) other tb files have to be removed? I think that the same tablebases is not enough and you may need to reprodce the all game with the same time of pondering to reproduce the bug because it is possible that learning from some previous analysis is responsible. The point of Amir is that not having tablebases is not the problem and even if by some luck having all the tablebases could prevent the problem then a similiar problem may happen even with all the tablebases. > > >>The log doesn't show what J8 was thinking. Apparently it thought it was mating , >>because it played all moves in 0 seconds. > > >Be5 is played here in several variations. I dislike this move. This is a result of bad evaluation. programs should translate mates from tablebases to numbers so in case of a simple win they will not play stupid sacrifices. I have not statistics of the average number of moves to win based on evaluation but a score of mate in 30 from tablebases should be transalted to +8.00 in the evaluation if based on statistics of thousands of games without tablebases top programs always win positions with 7.50-8.50 score and the average number of moves to win these positions games without tablebases is 30. Uri
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