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Subject: Re: NPS, EBF, Knowledge and Elo

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 10:41:30 08/15/03

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On August 15, 2003 at 00:18:49, Ricardo Gibert wrote:

>On August 14, 2003 at 23:54:08, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On August 14, 2003 at 22:40:04, Ricardo Gibert wrote:
>>
>>>If doubling NPS (all else being equal) produces a roughly 40 to 75 elo strength
>>>increase, then doubling knowledge produces how much elo strength increase?
>>
>>How do you measure doubling of knowledge?  I doubt if anyone can measure it.
>
>
>Look up information theory on the web.

What will that do for me?

> Also, you might find it helpful to
>consider EGTBs a model for all of chess.

Every study I have seen shows that EGTB's do not make chess programs play any
stronger.  By that measure, information has no value.

>>>Or do increases in knowledge follow a completely different type of relationship
>>>to playing stength?
>>>
>>>What impact on NPS does a doubling of knowledge have? I know it slows it down,
>>>but what is the relationship (a rule of thumb) between the 2? It is said that
>>>adding knowldege in hardware does not exact a speed penalty, but can this really
>>>be true? Or is the speed penalty simply less apparent?
>>
>>It may be possible to double knowledge and NPS at the same time.
>
>
>By knowledge I meant chess knowledge as it pertains to evaluation. Another type
>of chess knowledge is that pertaining to move ordering. Also, non-chess
>knowledge to increase the efficiency of a program is another type knowledge and
>the one the one you appear to allude to. All of these I think they need to be
>considered separately. However, the one I'm most interested in is the knowledge
>used in evaluation.

Yet another type of knowledge is search depth.  So I don't think it is possible
to separate the two cleanly.

>
>>
>>>How much attention should a programmer give to lowering the EBF of his program
>>>versus adding more knowledge?
>>
>>Just pick a single move.  EBF is one.   In other words, any reduction in EBF
>>must be smart or it may do more harm than good.
>
>
>Which is one of the reasons why I asked, "How much attention should a programmer
>give to lowering the EBF of his program versus adding more knowledge?" I think
>it is possible to answer my question a little bit intelligently ;-)

That would require a more intelligent person than myself.

>>>I'm curious about the different opinions programmers have on this topic. My
>>>assumption is the answers to these questions can have a big impact on computer
>>>chess program design.



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