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Subject: Re: Hash and first Fail High

Author: Tony Werten

Date: 01:39:43 08/17/03

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On August 16, 2003 at 23:14:45, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On August 16, 2003 at 07:23:49, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>
>>On August 15, 2003 at 22:56:34, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>On August 14, 2003 at 15:27:06, Peter Fendrich wrote:
>>>
>>>>1FH = The ratio where the first generated move in the node is a Fail High.
>>>>
>>>>I experimented with removing the the hash table and became a bit surprised.
>>>>Normally I have about 1FH = 95-96%. When I removed the hash table that figure
>>>>raised to more like 1FH = 96-97% while the search depth, as expected, was
>>>>decreased.
>>>>
>>>>Increased 1FH when removing the hash table. Is this normal?
>>>
>>>Probably.  You increased the size of the tree.  And for the extra stuff you
>>>searched, you searched it pretty accurately.  But you _did_ search it, which
>>>slowed you down.  :)
>>
>>No! - That does not make any sense at all.
>
>Sorry, but it makes _lots_ of sense.
>
>If you don't try a hash table move first, then you will probably try captures
>and captures have re-captures that work instantly.  Hence more cutoffs.  Just
>try it...
>
>The hash move is often _not_ a capture.  But if you try a capture first,
>then the corresponding re-capture will be an instant cutoff that is easier
>to find than a reply to a non-capture.
>
>>
>>"the extra stuff you searched, you searched it pretty accurately"
>>
>>If we disabled hashing and hence handicap move ordering, we'll do
>>worse, not better, on average.
>>
>>Yes, we may generate extra nodes and do well there, but that's certainly
>>not what we should expected in the average case, since we just made
>>our move ordering worse!
>>
>>Do you see your contradiction?
>
>Not at all.  See above.  Which is easier to refute, a non-capture or a
>capture?
>
>Answer:  A capture.

This is incorrect. It will be the opposite most of the time. Place a queen on
the board, count the amount of bad captures it can make, now count the amount of
squares it can go to that are defended ( and the queen will be captured)

I'm pretty sure the latter will be higher most of the time.

Maybe you meant: Is a move easier refuted by a capture or a noncapture ?

Tony

>
>>
>>--
>>GCP



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