Author: Jens Kahlenberg
Date: 09:14:04 08/19/03
Go up one level in this thread
On August 19, 2003 at 09:21:11, Uri Blass wrote: >On August 18, 2003 at 14:47:26, Jens Kahlenberg wrote: > >>On August 18, 2003 at 01:27:55, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On August 18, 2003 at 00:22:53, Terry McCracken wrote: >>> >>>>On August 17, 2003 at 22:31:16, Keith Long wrote: >>>> >>>>>give the human 1 hour for the game and the computer 2 sec a move and i bet fritz >>>>>would still beat anyone here >>>> >>>>You'd lose that bet....LOL! >>>> >>>>Many of us have beaten these beasts on there terms, this would be giving the >>>>human the advantage. >>>> >>>>I wouldn't play a machine that way...nor do I think many others here would as >>>>well. >>>> >>>>2sec. per move for Fritz isn't enough to break even 2000 ELO, unless you had a >>>>10 ghz machine. >>> >>>Fritz3 already got the IM norm on p90 at 120/40 time control. >>>even without considering software improvements >>>3 minutes per move on p90 is equivalent to 10 seconds per move with the hardware >>>of today >>> >>>if we assume that 10 seconds per move is 2400 than 2 seconds per move is above >>>2000 even if you assume 100 elo for doubling the speed and I did not consider >>>the fact that the human play worse when (s)he has less time to ponder and that >>>the computer play better when it has more time to ponder. >>> >>>My guess is that when you consider also the software improvement from fritz3 to >>>the top programs of today you get that the top programs of today can perform at >>>IM level if they are allowed to use only 2 seconds per move. >> >> >>Hi Uri, >> >>I don't think so. IMHO even FM-level should be enough to survive the middlegame >>generally with a not totally drawn position if top engines have only 2 seconds >>per move, because they can't get deep enough to outsearch their opponent in >>tactical issues. In the endgame the engines will have a hard time to even draw a >>drawn game at that rate of play. >> >>Regards, >>Jens > >Fritz3(p90) already did the IM norm in 1994. > >Now even if you assume no pondering of more than 2 seconds Fritz3(p90) 180 >seconds per move is equivalent to Fritz3(hardware that is 20 times faster) 9 >seconds per move >and Fritz3(9 seconds per move) is probably at similiar level to top programs of >today (2 seconds per move) > >Uri If i get your "calculation" right, Fritz3 on usual hardware (not those 8-16 processors SMP-machines) _must_ have the strength to compete with Kasparov at normal rate of play. Ergo: Top engines on SMP-hardware _must_ kill him?! Do i miss your point??? No You missed some points ... e. g. you can setup an equal endgame position and play against Fritz at 2 seconds per move and let's say half an hour for yourself. If your rating is above 2100 you shouldn't have any problems to draw or win and you'll rarely loose. So the only question is how to survive the middlegame ... and that's why my "calculation" adds _some_ ELO points to 2100 and lifts the human strength to FM-level. I neglected pondering, because imho "weak" humans don't play computer moves too often. Regards, Jens
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