Author: Uri Blass
Date: 10:36:12 08/19/03
Go up one level in this thread
On August 19, 2003 at 12:14:04, Jens Kahlenberg wrote: >On August 19, 2003 at 09:21:11, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On August 18, 2003 at 14:47:26, Jens Kahlenberg wrote: >> >>>On August 18, 2003 at 01:27:55, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On August 18, 2003 at 00:22:53, Terry McCracken wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 17, 2003 at 22:31:16, Keith Long wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>give the human 1 hour for the game and the computer 2 sec a move and i bet fritz >>>>>>would still beat anyone here >>>>> >>>>>You'd lose that bet....LOL! >>>>> >>>>>Many of us have beaten these beasts on there terms, this would be giving the >>>>>human the advantage. >>>>> >>>>>I wouldn't play a machine that way...nor do I think many others here would as >>>>>well. >>>>> >>>>>2sec. per move for Fritz isn't enough to break even 2000 ELO, unless you had a >>>>>10 ghz machine. >>>> >>>>Fritz3 already got the IM norm on p90 at 120/40 time control. >>>>even without considering software improvements >>>>3 minutes per move on p90 is equivalent to 10 seconds per move with the hardware >>>>of today >>>> >>>>if we assume that 10 seconds per move is 2400 than 2 seconds per move is above >>>>2000 even if you assume 100 elo for doubling the speed and I did not consider >>>>the fact that the human play worse when (s)he has less time to ponder and that >>>>the computer play better when it has more time to ponder. >>>> >>>>My guess is that when you consider also the software improvement from fritz3 to >>>>the top programs of today you get that the top programs of today can perform at >>>>IM level if they are allowed to use only 2 seconds per move. >>> >>> >>>Hi Uri, >>> >>>I don't think so. IMHO even FM-level should be enough to survive the middlegame >>>generally with a not totally drawn position if top engines have only 2 seconds >>>per move, because they can't get deep enough to outsearch their opponent in >>>tactical issues. In the endgame the engines will have a hard time to even draw a >>>drawn game at that rate of play. >>> >>>Regards, >>>Jens >> >>Fritz3(p90) already did the IM norm in 1994. >> >>Now even if you assume no pondering of more than 2 seconds Fritz3(p90) 180 >>seconds per move is equivalent to Fritz3(hardware that is 20 times faster) 9 >>seconds per move >>and Fritz3(9 seconds per move) is probably at similiar level to top programs of >>today (2 seconds per move) >> >>Uri > > >If i get your "calculation" right, Fritz3 on usual hardware (not those 8-16 >processors SMP-machines) _must_ have the strength to compete with Kasparov at >normal rate of play. Ergo: Top engines on SMP-hardware _must_ kill him?! No Fritz3 on p90 is at FM/IM level Fritz3 on usual hardware is probably GM level(anti computer experts may beat it but most players play their normal game when they play a computer). > >Do i miss your point??? > >No > >You missed some points ... e. g. you can setup an equal endgame position and >play against Fritz at 2 seconds per move and let's say half an hour for >yourself. If your rating is above 2100 you shouldn't have any problems to draw >or win and you'll rarely loose. So the only question is how to survive the >middlegame ... and that's why my "calculation" adds _some_ ELO points to 2100 >and lifts the human strength to FM-level. I neglected pondering, because imho >"weak" humans don't play computer moves too often. I think that the middle game is more important and good chances that even a master will not be able to get equal endgame. Uri
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