Author: Uri Blass
Date: 13:22:58 08/19/03
Go up one level in this thread
On August 19, 2003 at 15:02:11, Jens Kahlenberg wrote: >On August 19, 2003 at 13:36:12, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On August 19, 2003 at 12:14:04, Jens Kahlenberg wrote: >> >>>On August 19, 2003 at 09:21:11, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On August 18, 2003 at 14:47:26, Jens Kahlenberg wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 18, 2003 at 01:27:55, Uri Blass wrote: > >[snip] > >>>>>>Fritz3 already got the IM norm on p90 at 120/40 time control. >>>>>>even without considering software improvements >>>>>>3 minutes per move on p90 is equivalent to 10 seconds per move with the hardware >>>>>>of today >>>>>> >>>>>>if we assume that 10 seconds per move is 2400 than 2 seconds per move is above >>>>>>2000 even if you assume 100 elo for doubling the speed and I did not consider >>>>>>the fact that the human play worse when (s)he has less time to ponder and that >>>>>>the computer play better when it has more time to ponder. >>>>>> >>>>>>My guess is that when you consider also the software improvement from fritz3 to >>>>>>the top programs of today you get that the top programs of today can perform at >>>>>>IM level if they are allowed to use only 2 seconds per move. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Hi Uri, >>>>> >>>>>I don't think so. IMHO even FM-level should be enough to survive the middlegame >>>>>generally with a not totally drawn position if top engines have only 2 seconds >>>>>per move, because they can't get deep enough to outsearch their opponent in >>>>>tactical issues. In the endgame the engines will have a hard time to even draw a >>>>>drawn game at that rate of play. >>>>> >>>>>Regards, >>>>>Jens >>>> >>>>Fritz3(p90) already did the IM norm in 1994. >>>> >>>>Now even if you assume no pondering of more than 2 seconds Fritz3(p90) 180 >>>>seconds per move is equivalent to Fritz3(hardware that is 20 times faster) 9 >>>>seconds per move >>>>and Fritz3(9 seconds per move) is probably at similiar level to top programs of >>>>today (2 seconds per move) >>>> >>>>Uri >>> >>> >>>If i get your "calculation" right, Fritz3 on usual hardware (not those 8-16 >>>processors SMP-machines) _must_ have the strength to compete with Kasparov at >>>normal rate of play. Ergo: Top engines on SMP-hardware _must_ kill him?! >> >>No >> >>Fritz3 on p90 is at FM/IM level >>Fritz3 on usual hardware is probably GM level(anti computer experts may beat it >>but most players play their normal game when they play a computer). > > >Sorry Uri, > >i didn't know that your exact calculation just holds for one direction. Shame on >me because i estimated the stupid other direction: > >Fritz3 on p90 is IM (2350 ELO) at normal rate of play. And doubling the speed >four times seduced me to the wrong assumption that Fritz3 on a 1.44 GHz machine >should reach 2750 ELO ... enough to compete with Kasparov. I think that your assumption about the difference in elo from doubling the speed is wrong against humans. > >But now i fear that you must've been right as took the other direction and >wrote: > >> Fritz3 already got the IM norm on p90 at 120/40 time control >> control. Even without considering software improvements >> 3 minutes per move on p90 is equivalent to 10 seconds per >> move with the hardware of today >> >> if we assume that 10 seconds per move is 2400 than 2 seconds >> per move is above 2000 even if you assume 100 elo for doubling >> the speed > >Perhaps i'll never understand this difficult ELO algebra for computer chess :-( I said even if you assume 100 elo for doubling(my assumption is that 100 elo is only upper bound and it can be less than it). Uri
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