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Subject: Re: questions about dynamically updating attackboards

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 03:45:16 08/24/03

Go up one level in this thread


On August 24, 2003 at 06:35:45, Omid David Tabibi wrote:

>On August 24, 2003 at 05:11:48, Sune Fischer wrote:
>
>>On August 24, 2003 at 02:27:59, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>
>>>On August 23, 2003 at 19:55:31, Sune Fischer wrote:
>>>
>>>>On August 23, 2003 at 19:35:22, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yes you can do that, if you don't need to know where the attacks came from.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It won't be a super accurate SEE, for how do you do x-ray attacks using that?
>>>>>
>>>>>And how do you do it accurately using your 32 bit per square scheme?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You get the map of "primary" attackers by the lookup, I still scan behind them
>>>>the most primitive way to see if there is x-ray attackers.
>>>
>>>But how do you incorporate that x-ray attacker with the lookup's result? You
>>>cannot just add its value to the lookup result...
>>
>>Like Uri suggested you can first check if the square of the attacker is attacked
>>by a sliding piece, if not no need to look behind it as it can't expose
>>anything.
>
>Sure, but what do you do if you find that an attacker is attacked by a sliding
>piece? How do you incorporate that attacker with the lookup table's result?
>
>For example, there are a number of attackers who attack a square, and a number
>of defenders; the lookup gives the value -3, i.e., a losing capture. Also assume
>that there is an x-ray queen behind one of your attacking pieces. How do you
>incorporate that queen into that -3 value?
>
>
>>
>>BTW gave some more thought to the squares vs indices table.
>>It dawned on me, that a square table would not need twice the space but four
>>times the space, it would be 64x64 rather than 32x32.
>>There might also be a problem keeping track of the pieces with the square table,
>>the pieces have a tendency to jump around so you'd never know where their attack
>>board was and it would be complicated to xor out with the old one.
>>
>>Giving each piece a permanent ID-tag makes it easier to track that idividual
>>piece, ie. where was that piece 5 moves ago, has it been an active piece... and
>>so on.
>>
>>>>I just don't see a quicker way, do you?
>>>
>>>Maybe ignoring x-ray attackers altogether?! After all, quiescence search is all
>>>about inaccuracies, isn't it? (disclaimer: I have not tried this idea yet :)
>>
>>If it was just for move ordering I wouldn't question it for a second, but can
>>you still cull the losing captures using this?
>>It seems to me it would be wrong very often.
>>
>>I also don't fully agree that qsearch is all about inaccuracies, think about it,
>>all branches terminate in a qsearch, so everything sent down the tree must be
>>garbage....?
>
>Until a while ago at least, Junior did not have any quiescence search at all...
>
>Besides, even an "accurate" SEE isn't accurate at all:
>
>[D]3r2k1/pp1n1ppp/2p2q2/8/2PR4/2B5/PPQ2PPP/6K1 w - - 0 1
>
>SEE will deem Rxd7 a losing capture, while it's actually a winning one. If you
>want a more accurate quiescence, use MVV/LVA.

I think that it is dependent on the SEE that you define.
I do not think that you can generalize about SEE and I believe that there are
programs that are going to find that Rxd7 is not a losing capture in their SEE.

Uri



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