Author: Drexel,Michael
Date: 18:42:12 08/24/03
Go up one level in this thread
On August 24, 2003 at 20:47:19, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote: >On August 24, 2003 at 17:48:45, Drexel,Michael wrote: > >>On August 24, 2003 at 12:21:27, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote: >> >>>On August 24, 2003 at 11:57:28, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >>> >>>>On August 24, 2003 at 11:28:29, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 24, 2003 at 10:38:31, Anson T J wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>All PGN games are available for download and view on the following website: >>>>>>http://mysite.freeserve.com/intagrand/junior8test/index.html >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Test Configuration >>>>>>Hardware: Dual AMD MP 2400+ 512 MB Ram >>>>>>Software: Junior 8 GUI & 3-5 piece EGTB >>>>>> >>>>>>Engine Details >>>>>>Processor: 1 CPU each (AMD MP2400+) >>>>>>Hash: 128 MB hash each >>>>>>Ponder Move: On >>>>>>Books: Native Books / CM9k (F6's general.ctg) >>>>>>Time Control: 40/2Hrs + 20/1Hr + Rest/30 mins >>>>>>Rounds: 50 games vs each opponent >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Opponent: Junior 8's Score: >>>>>>Shredder 7.04 +18/-12/=20 (56%) +41 elo >>>>>>Fritz 8 +17/-11/=22 (56%) +41 elo >>>>>>Hiarcs 8 +28/-8/=14 (70%) +147 elo >>>>>>CM 9000 (SKR) +17/-10/=23 (57%) +48 elo >>>>>>CM 9000 +23/-8/=19 (65%) +107 elo >>>>>> >>>>>>This concludes my Junior 8 Summer Test. I hope people will find the games and >>>>>>results useful. Sorry that I will not be able to run any more test games for a >>>>>>while as I can no longer spare the CPU time. A fine performance by Junior 8 >>>>>>here. Also congrats to the "SKR creators" as the SKR personality of Chess Master >>>> >>>>>>9000 performed 59 elo points stronger than the default settings. >>>>>There is a big problem with this match: You did not use the Chessmaster opening >>>>>book for CM .This is like separating the head from body.Opening books are indeed >part of the program. >>>> >>>> There was nothing wrong with using the general.ctg instead of the >>>> CM9000.obk since the latter book is in any case somewhat weaker. >>>> And if Anson had played with the CM9-GUI we [all chess people] would >>>> not have the pleasure to follow the games live. >>>> Kurt >>>> >>>>>Also I should note that (and I have said this many >>>>>times) that comp vs comp matches prove nothing about how a program will do >>>>>against humans:That is Program A may be stronger than program B by 100 Elo in >>>>>Comp vs Comp ;but Program B may be stronger by 100 Elo than program A when >>>>>playing only humans. >>>> >>>>Both Fritz and Junior were disasters in the matches against Kasparov and >>>>Kramnik. >>>> >>>> How can you argue that way. You seem to forget one thing: both programs >>>> have drawn their matches vs the strongest chess players of the world. >>>> Kurt >>>> >>>>In any case I do not see the points in these >>>>>Comp Matches(We need more human vs Comp) as SSDF is doing a great job pitting >>>>>programs against each other. >>>Kurt : the reason they drew is beacaus both Kasparov and Kramnik made very >>>elementary errors in the games they lost .Note: that I am not suggesting >>>conspiracy.Look at game 5 vs Garry 10...Bxh2+ by DJ is unsound. >> >>AFAIK nobody has proven so far that 10...Bxh2+ is unsound. >>This would require a line which is a forced win for white. >>GM Shipov and GM Hubner were not able to come up with a convincing refutation. >> >>I have posted >>>extensive analysis(A HIARCS SHOOTOUT AT PLY13) showing indeed that this comes >>>to a loss had Garry played 16.g3.(the Shootout took 2 days to Complete on a fast >> >>ridiculous >> >>Michael >> >>>Computer).Also look at DJs Rae8?? in Game 1.Look at Bf8?? by Fritz against >>>Kramnik in game 2 and a3?? by Fritz against Kramnik in game 3.There is no >>>doubt in My mind that Fritz and Junior are not as strong against human players >>>as some of the lessor known Programs .However Chessbase politics has had these >>>2 programs playing humans.The stongest programs in the World against humans >>>are HIARCS CHESSMASTER and MCHESS. >>> am >What is ridiculous guy? huh? Your opinion is ridiculous... Chess is a logical game and if you are down in >Material you should expect to lose.13 plys is very deep for a chess game .After >16.g3 it is a lose for Black;the HIARCS shoot out proves this. The most important factor in Chess is Kingsafety and not Material. 13 ply is not very deep at all in chess. HIARCS 8 has no clue at all here. It does not understand, even after a very long search, that 16...Nh2+ is the critical variation and not 16...Qh2+. Your shootout is therefore meaningless and proves nothing. Michael
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