Author: Uri Blass
Date: 23:02:38 08/24/03
Go up one level in this thread
On August 24, 2003 at 22:19:34, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote: >On August 24, 2003 at 21:42:12, Drexel,Michael wrote: > >>On August 24, 2003 at 20:47:19, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote: >> >>>On August 24, 2003 at 17:48:45, Drexel,Michael wrote: >>> >>>>On August 24, 2003 at 12:21:27, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote: >>>> >>>>>On August 24, 2003 at 11:57:28, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On August 24, 2003 at 11:28:29, ALI MIRAFZALI wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On August 24, 2003 at 10:38:31, Anson T J wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>All PGN games are available for download and view on the following website: >>>>>>>>http://mysite.freeserve.com/intagrand/junior8test/index.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Test Configuration >>>>>>>>Hardware: Dual AMD MP 2400+ 512 MB Ram >>>>>>>>Software: Junior 8 GUI & 3-5 piece EGTB >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Engine Details >>>>>>>>Processor: 1 CPU each (AMD MP2400+) >>>>>>>>Hash: 128 MB hash each >>>>>>>>Ponder Move: On >>>>>>>>Books: Native Books / CM9k (F6's general.ctg) >>>>>>>>Time Control: 40/2Hrs + 20/1Hr + Rest/30 mins >>>>>>>>Rounds: 50 games vs each opponent >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Opponent: Junior 8's Score: >>>>>>>>Shredder 7.04 +18/-12/=20 (56%) +41 elo >>>>>>>>Fritz 8 +17/-11/=22 (56%) +41 elo >>>>>>>>Hiarcs 8 +28/-8/=14 (70%) +147 elo >>>>>>>>CM 9000 (SKR) +17/-10/=23 (57%) +48 elo >>>>>>>>CM 9000 +23/-8/=19 (65%) +107 elo >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>This concludes my Junior 8 Summer Test. I hope people will find the games and >>>>>>>>results useful. Sorry that I will not be able to run any more test games for a >>>>>>>>while as I can no longer spare the CPU time. A fine performance by Junior 8 >>>>>>>>here. Also congrats to the "SKR creators" as the SKR personality of Chess Master >>>>>> >>>>>>>>9000 performed 59 elo points stronger than the default settings. >>>>>>>There is a big problem with this match: You did not use the Chessmaster opening >>>>>>>book for CM .This is like separating the head from body.Opening books are indeed >part of the program. >>>>>> >>>>>> There was nothing wrong with using the general.ctg instead of the >>>>>> CM9000.obk since the latter book is in any case somewhat weaker. >>>>>> And if Anson had played with the CM9-GUI we [all chess people] would >>>>>> not have the pleasure to follow the games live. >>>>>> Kurt >>>>>> >>>>>>>Also I should note that (and I have said this many >>>>>>>times) that comp vs comp matches prove nothing about how a program will do >>>>>>>against humans:That is Program A may be stronger than program B by 100 Elo in >>>>>>>Comp vs Comp ;but Program B may be stronger by 100 Elo than program A when >>>>>>>playing only humans. >>>>>> >>>>>>Both Fritz and Junior were disasters in the matches against Kasparov and >>>>>>Kramnik. >>>>>> >>>>>> How can you argue that way. You seem to forget one thing: both programs >>>>>> have drawn their matches vs the strongest chess players of the world. >>>>>> Kurt >>>>>> >>>>>>In any case I do not see the points in these >>>>>>>Comp Matches(We need more human vs Comp) as SSDF is doing a great job pitting >>>>>>>programs against each other. >>>>>Kurt : the reason they drew is beacaus both Kasparov and Kramnik made very >>>>>elementary errors in the games they lost .Note: that I am not suggesting >>>>>conspiracy.Look at game 5 vs Garry 10...Bxh2+ by DJ is unsound. >>>> >>>>AFAIK nobody has proven so far that 10...Bxh2+ is unsound. >>>>This would require a line which is a forced win for white. >>>>GM Shipov and GM Hubner were not able to come up with a convincing refutation. >>>> >>>>I have posted >>>>>extensive analysis(A HIARCS SHOOTOUT AT PLY13) showing indeed that this comes >>>>>to a loss had Garry played 16.g3.(the Shootout took 2 days to Complete on a fast >>>> >>>>ridiculous >>>> >>>>Michael >>>> >>>>>Computer).Also look at DJs Rae8?? in Game 1.Look at Bf8?? by Fritz against >>>>>Kramnik in game 2 and a3?? by Fritz against Kramnik in game 3.There is no >>>>>doubt in My mind that Fritz and Junior are not as strong against human players >>>>>as some of the lessor known Programs .However Chessbase politics has had these >>>>>2 programs playing humans.The stongest programs in the World against humans >>>>>are HIARCS CHESSMASTER and MCHESS. >>>>> am >>>What is ridiculous guy? huh? >> >>Your opinion is ridiculous... >> >>Chess is a logical game and if you are down in >>>Material you should expect to lose.13 plys is very deep for a chess game .After >>>16.g3 it is a lose for Black;the HIARCS shoot out proves this. >> >>The most important factor in Chess is Kingsafety and not Material. >>13 ply is not very deep at all in chess. >>HIARCS 8 has no clue at all here. It does not understand, even after a very long >>search, that 16...Nh2+ is the critical variation and not 16...Qh2+. >>Your shootout is therefore meaningless and proves nothing. >> >>Michael >You got so much to learn Almost all engines choose 16..Nh2+ before settleing >for 16....Qh2+.It seems that you do not do much chess analysis with programs >in addition to being a very weak player. I remember from previous posts that Michael Drexel is a master in chess. I did not do serious analysis of the position to know but it is possible that almost all the programs change their mind from the right move to the wrong move. Uri Uri
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