Author: Matthew White
Date: 12:33:46 08/27/03
Go up one level in this thread
On August 26, 2003 at 23:10:21, Sune Larsson wrote:
>On August 26, 2003 at 22:43:32, Matthew White wrote:
>
>>On August 26, 2003 at 21:13:14, George Jones wrote:
>>
>>>On August 26, 2003 at 18:24:59, Sune Larsson wrote:
>>>
>>>>Too long since I played a 40/2 vs a top program, so this evening it was due
>>>>time. My old PIII 800 - 128 mb hash and one of my Junior books. Maybe a Lopez -
>>>>Berliner as black. Nope it turned out to be something totally different...
>>>>
>>>>Here is the position after black's 31.-Qh3. White (Junior) is completely tied up
>>>>and can only wait for the inevitable...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [D]6rk/b7/P1ppp2p/1p4p1/3PPn2/4NP1q/R4P2/3Q1RK1 w - - 0 32
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>The whole game, with some comments, below.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>[Event "120'/40+60'/20+30'"]
>>>>[Site "Kil"]
>>>>[Date "2003.08.26"]
>>>>[Round "?"]
>>>>[White "Junior 8"]
>>>>[Black "Larsson"]
>>>>[Result "0-1"]
>>>>[ECO "C50"]
>>>>[PlyCount "76"]
>>>>[EventDate "2003.??.??"]
>>>>[SourceDate "2001.01.01"]
>>>>[TimeControl "40/7200:20/3600:1800"]
>>>>
>>>>{128MB, jbook.ctg, P III 800} 1. e4 {0} e5 {2} 2. Nf3 {0} Nc6 {1} 3. Bc4 {
>>>>I had expected the Lopez and wanted to try the Berliner with the old Ne4
>>>>instead of the more common Nf5.0} Bc5 {13} 4. O-O {0} Nf6 {7} 5. d3 {0} O-O {16
>>>>} 6. Bg5 {0} h6 {8} 7. Bh4 {0} g5 {9} 8. Bg3 {-0.01/17 167} d6 {18} 9. c3 {
>>>>0.04/17 118} Be6 {Because white cannot really take on e6, since it gives black
>>>>good control of the centre squares - an open f-file - and a golden square for
>>>>the knight on f4. Furthermore, if white someday plays d4, black can happily
>>>>respond with exd. 38} 10. Bxe6 $2 {
>>>>Thank you... The natural move was 10.Bb3. 0.25/17 191} fxe6 {4} 11. b4 {
>>>>0.33/18 258} Bb6 {6} 12. h3 $2 {Ooppss...This is just creating more weaknesses
>>>>for white - and targets for black. 0.29/19 477} a6 {
>>>>Since white probably would play a4 anyway. 120} 13. a4 {0.41/18 219} Qe8 {
>>>>Aiming for the kingside. 107} 14. Nbd2 {0.49/19 405} Nh5 {41} 15. Nc4 {
>>>>0.51/18 825} Ba7 {15.-Nxg3 was nothing. 126} 16. Bh2 {0.45/16 19} Nf4 {36} 17.
>>>>Bxf4 {0.79/16 248} Rxf4 {53} 18. Ne3 {0.82/17 211} Ne7 $1 {
>>>>Another one going for the king. 467} 19. a5 {0.70/16 144} Ng6 {
>>>>Black is much better here. 244} 20. Qb3 {0.63/18 1} Qf7 {336} 21. b5 {
>>>>0.66/17 272} axb5 {163} 22. Qxb5 {0.61/15 109} c6 {47} 23. Qb3 {0.16/17 546}
>>>>Rxf3 $1 {565} 24. gxf3 {0.00/17 1} Nf4 $1 {
>>>>24.-Nh4 was also tempting - but the textmove is better. 160} 25. a6 {0.00/15 92
>>>>} b5 {37} 26. Ra2 {-0.25/16 868} Qh5 {408} 27. h4 {-0.72/17 1} Qxh4 {262} 28.
>>>>Qb1 {-1.06/16 214} Kh8 {341} 29. Qd1 {-1.04/16 147} Rg8 {499} 30. d4 {
>>>>-1.87/17 131} exd4 {164} 31. cxd4 {-1.83/17 204} Qh3 {Now white is completely
>>>>tied up. The queen has to stay on d1 to prevent black's 32.-g4 33.fxg4 Rxg4+
>>>>and mate. The rook must be on the 2nd row else black simply plays Bxd4. 274}
>>>>32. Rc2 {-3.45/17 214} Rg7 $1 {Preparing h5 and g4 - if then fxg4 hxg4 - black
>>>>is ready for the deadly Rh7. 417} 33. Re1 {If 33.Rxc6 so 33.-Bxd4. -4.91/18 555
>>>>} e5 {But why not open the diagonal for the bishop first?! 350} 34. d5 {
>>>>-6.90/17 280} c5 {22} 35. Rf1 {-5.57/16 51} h5 {120} 36. Rd2 {Here I noticed
>>>>that the b-c pawns actually would take care of the job solely. -#8/16 44} c4 {
>>>>47} 37. Ra2 {-#7/16 44} b4 {42} 38. Re1 {-8.73/15 56} b3 {146} 0-1
>>>>
>>>>Sune
>>>
>>>Don't believe it for a Moment, niether tiger nor Shredder Lost a single game in
>>>Argetina with Grandmasters and International masters present, and You a mere
>>>Paltzer (2100) manage to beat Junior8 on your first try?? Perhaps if you would
>>>stop taking moves back and play fairly the result would be different?
>
>
>
>>Bear in mind that the Tiger and Shredder games were played with tournament
>>books, and this game wasn't necessarily... Also, this game was played on an
>>older machine than those in the tournaments...
>
>
> One issue here is the evaluations of Junior. It felt happy with the horrible
> 10.Bxe6? - climbing from +0.04 to +0.25. And after move 18 +0.82 - move 22
> +0.61, though the position was clearly worse for white. I have no idea if
> Junior would change its mind with faster hardware. Doubling the speed is about
> 1 ply more - yes?
>
> Sune
I just took a closer look at that position, and I think that Junior's king
safety eval is probably at fault here (combined with the general computer
mistrust for doubled pawns), since it sees that the recapture fxe removes a
cover pawn. It misses the important point that the cover pawn now helps control
the center... You are correct, though, a faster machine doesn't help here.
As an aside, given Junior's attacking skill, why wouldn't it have tried for the
Max Lange? That seems to be a much more suitable opening, rather than trying to
get into a positional battle... BTW, even after 6 minutes on my slowish Athlon,
J8 still wants to play Bxe6 (at 18 ply).
As far as 12. h3 is concerned, I have seen Junior push the h pawn in several
situations when it doesn't see any better plan, and pushing the pawn is almost
always premature (or just plain wrong)... It may be to try to keep pieces far
away from the king, but it often ends up creating nasty weaknesses... Faster
hardware may have made a difference here, since Junior seems to waver between a4
and h3 here.
Matt
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.