Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 05:43:01 08/29/03
Go up one level in this thread
On August 28, 2003 at 18:01:49, Tom Kerrigan wrote: >On August 28, 2003 at 16:22:29, Robert Hyatt wrote: > >>>Honda and Toyota both make engines like that. S2000, RSX, Celica, probably some >>>others. If the S2000 puts down as much torque at 9000 as some other car at 7000, >>>does it matter if it lugs at 1000? >> >>Yep. When starting from 0.0 mph, one has to go through 1000 RPM to get >>to 7000. :) > >Sure, if you're driving to the grocery store. Or when you are launching from the starting line at the drag strip. > >>>I don't have the time to go looking for any specific datapoints, but if your >>>stroke is much longer you're going to get more torque per cylinder, right? So >>>why do you think it's impossible for a V6 with a really long stroke to make more >>>torque than a V8 with a really short stroke? Surely there's some crossover >>>point. >> >>Simple. We were talking about "equivalent". IE yes, a 6 liter v6 should >>make more torque than a 3.4 liter V8. But nobody does that. IE if you use >>a v6 bore/stroke of 4.0/3.0, I'm going to use the same in my V8, and have >>33% more displacement. And 33% more power strokes. And more torque. > >But I'm talking about using different bore/stroke #s across engines. You said >it's impossible for a V6 to make more torque than a V8 with the same >displacement, or something like that, right? You didn't add the clause that they >have to have the same cylinder shape (sorry, does "geometry" work better for >you?). OK. So long as the displacement of the 6 is proportional to the displacement of the 8, then I'll stick with that. The 8 is simply going to win. All you have to do is visit the local drag strip to see this. You might see a nitrous-burning 4 beat a v-8 on occasion, but _not_ if the v8 is _also_ spraying nitrous. But all things being equal (displacement, method of air ingestion, etc.) I'll take the v8 every time... And yes, geometry is a better term. Knowing that when you lengthen the stroke, you cut the RPM. Which means you might bump the torque a bit, but you drop the horsepower even more up top. > >>>No exhaust (not "less exhaust") means the turbo doesn't spool. I know from >>>experience that you get at least some boost from an Eclipse when you launch at >>>5000 RPM. And plus, what car takes any significant amount of time to get to ~10 >>>MPH, where a typical turbo will be hitting max boost in 1st gear? (Which is the >>>only time you should even possibly be seeing turbo lag in a drag race.) >> >>Yes, but do the math. If at the end of 1 second, I am doing 25 mph, and you are >>doing 15, you are _never_ going to catch me. I will be pulling away for the >>rest of the race, even if our acceleration is identical after 1 second passes. > >Sure, but it's not like turbo cars stand still for the first 10 MPH. They still >accelerate, and if you launch them then you start out with at least some boost. >You're not convincing me that turbo lag will guarantee a loss at the track. It doesn't guarantee a loss. But if you go to the drag strip, 99% of blown cars are blown via a belt-drive. There's a reason for that. "lag". Or lack thereof for a belt-drive. > >>>Fine, there are still other variables. It's easy to find circumstantial evidence >>>to prove my point: check out the Evo 8. 2L turbo I4 making 271 HP and it's >>>pretty much exactly as fast as a Corvette with a 5.7L V8 making more (345?) HP. >>> >>>-Tom >> >>I don't believe it for a minute. IE the Ford cobra (2003) makes almost 400 >>horsepower blown. It can't take a C5 corvet (non-Z06). See this month's >>Motor Trend magazine. 271 horses won't touch a corvette. The Cobra is .1 >>second slower in the 1/4 mile. > >Okay, don't believe it, but these are easily verifiable facts and you're just >going to look like an idiot if you don't "believe" it and you end up wrong. I >may look this up in my magazines when I get home, but I did find on Motor >Trend's website this morning that the Evo 8 does 0-60 in 4.6 and 1/4 in 13.3. I >remember that the C5 usually does 0-60 around 4.8 and 1/4 in the low 13s. > >-Tom The new c-5 is running 13.0's. The z06 is running 12's. the 13.0 is in the motor trend I mentioned in the comparison with the new SVT cobra.
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.