Author: Timmay
Date: 13:20:58 08/30/03
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On August 30, 2003 at 15:57:24, Uri Blass wrote: >The question is if humans know what moves are the best in quiet positions. >I believe that there are positions that humans also do not know what is the best >move and deep search can help computers to find better moves also in quiet >positions. > >I said that it may be interesting to see the relevant positions that you find >Junior7 better than Junior8 and Tiger14 better than Tiger15. > >Maybe it can help the programmers to understand if they do something wrong what >they do wrong. > >Uri Are you human Uri? How dare you say such a thing about the human race...grin. But seriously, without opening books which are HUMAN knowledge gained over years and years ALL the programs would be considerably weaker. Take away the opening books of any top program and I bet 50 dollars I could beat it. Computers can't grasp long-term planning which openings of humans consider in its foundation. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 can your computer find a better move than 3.Bb5? I doubt it. Computers aren't SO superior to humans that their weakening moves serve some deep purpose that is unfathomable for humans. Not likely! We're both (humans and computers) tackling the same game, chess. Think about human principles that we've developed ever since Steinitz. We've discovered that its easier to win pawns if they're weak or isolated or backward. So when Junior voluntarily makes a weakening move it could lose that pawn later which could make him lose in the end. In the game where Garry beat Junior in the g4 line of the Slav, Junior did not play good moves and ended up losing (part of it was the book, but the playing wasn't spectacular either, there were many positional inaccuracies which lead to the victory). There is not some mystical thing that computers know that humans don't like you made it seem in your quoted response. You're forgetting, when you put code into your program that says control the center, or make mobility important, who's knowledge is that? It's human knowledge! The computer bases its move choices on human knowledge which guides mindless search. So everything stems off the human knowledge of this game. So you should not downgrade the human factor. Humans also have the ability to improve! Programs are always frozen by their code. If you produce a computer that thinks it knows what its doing by playing a4 on the first move followed by Na3, I bet you I can beat it. Even though its an "infallible computer" which knows something we humans don't. So don't criticize the human race by saying such statements as "the question is if humans know what moves are better in quieter positions." There's no doubt about it, we do! I admit there are cases when weakening moves of computers according to human standards have been unpunished in the past, but they've also been exploited you can't forget that. Best wishes. Interesting conversation.
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