Author: Mike Byrne
Date: 06:55:27 09/07/03
Go up one level in this thread
On September 06, 2003 at 21:58:14, Kim Roper Jensen wrote: >Position from the game Larsen - Kavalek Montreal Tournament of Stars > >[D]1k6/8/B3K1P1/5P2/1pRr2Nn/2b5/8/8 b - - > >Only move here for black is Nxf5 and get both white pawns and it should be a >draw - according to the notes by Whiteley (its taken from the tournament book, >by Tal, Chepizhny & Roshal) > >Shredder 6 Paderborn Classical finds Nxf5 fast, but no drawscore after a long >time ... this on 2Ghz AMD with 256MB hashtable but very limited >endgametablebases > >Anyone sees this with a draw score ? > or have a large collection of endgametablebases :) > > 1.00 0:00 -7.08-- 1...Rxg4 2.Rxg4 (2) > 1.00 0:00 -7.29 1...Rxg4 2.Rxg4 (4) > 1.00 0:00 -7.04++ 1...Rxc4 2.Bxc4 (5) > 1.00 0:00 -6.11++ 1...Rxc4 2.Bxc4 (7) > 1.00 0:00 -3.47 1...Rxc4 2.Bxc4 (9) > 1.00 0:00 -2.30++ 1...Rd8 (21) > 1.00 0:00 -2.30 1...Rd8 (22) > 2.00 0:00 -2.55-- 1...Rd8 2.Rf4 (47) > 2.00 0:00 -3.09-- 1...Rd8 2.Nf6 Bxf6 3.Kxf6 (65) > 2.00 0:00 -3.19 1...Rd8 2.Nf6 Bxf6 3.Kxf6 (91) 9.1 > 2.00 0:00 -3.15++ 1...Rxc4 2.Bxc4 Bg7 (122) 12.2 > 2.00 0:00 -3.15 1...Rxc4 2.Bxc4 Bg7 (144) 14.4 > 3.00 0:00 -3.43-- 1...Rxc4 2.Bxc4 Kb7 3.Nf6 (389) 38.9 > 3.00 0:00 -3.96-- 1...Rxc4 2.Bxc4 Bd4 3.Nf6 (455) 45.5 > 3.00 0:00 -4.21 1...Rxc4 2.Bxc4 Bg7 3.f6 Nxg6 4.fxg7 (573) 57.3 > 3.00 0:00 -4.16++ 1...Rd8 2.Bb5 Bg7 (768) 76.8 > 3.00 0:00 -3.81++ 1...Rd8 2.Nf2 Re8+ 3.Kf7 (851) 85.1 > 3.00 0:00 -3.41 1...Rd8 2.Nf6 Nf3 (1.030) 103.0 > 3.00 0:00 -3.35++ 1...Ka7 2.Rxd4 Bxd4 3.Bb7 (1.786) 178.6 > 3.00 0:00 -3.35 1...Ka7 2.Rxd4 Bxd4 3.Bd3 (1.814) 90.7 > 4.00 0:00 -3.17 1...Ka7 2.Rxd4 Bxd4 3.Bc4 Bg7 (2.777) 138.8 > 5.00 0:00 -3.45-- 1...Ka7 2.Rxd4 Kb8 3.Nf6 Bxd4 (4.831) 241.5 > 5.00 0:00 -4.08-- 1...Ka7 2.Rxd4 Bxd4 3.Bc4 Kb6 4.Ne5 (4.936) 246.8 > 5.00 0:00 -4.25 1...Ka7 2.Rxd4 Bxd4 3.Bc4 Bg7 4.f6 Nxg6 5.fxg7 (7.014) >233.8 > 5.00 0:00 -4.24++ 1...Rd8 2.Rc8+ Rxc8 3.f6 (8.519) 283.9 > 5.00 0:00 -3.89++ 1...Rd8 2.Ne5 Re8+ 3.Kd7 Rxe5 4.Rxc3 (8.976) 299.2 > 5.00 0:00 -3.10 1...Rd8 2.Nf6 Nf3 3.Rf4 Nd4+ 4.Kf7 (13.447) 336.1 > 6.00 0:00 -3.35-- 1...Rd8 2.Nh6 Nf3 3.f6 Re8+ 4.Kf7 Ne5+ 5.Kxe8 Nxc4 >(32.395) 404.9 > 6.00 0:00 -3.65 1...Rd8 2.Nh6 Ng2 3.Rg4 Ne3 4.Rg1 (36.489) 405.4 > 6.00 0:00 -3.64++ 1...Rd1 2.Ne5 Re1 3.Ke7 (76.312) 448.8 > 6.00 0:00 -3.64 1...Rd1 2.Ne5 Re1 3.Rc5 Rxe5+ 4.Rxe5 Ka7 5.g7 Kxa6 (76.914) >452.4 > 7.01 0:00 -3.89-- 1...Rd1 2.Ne5 Bxe5 3.Kxe5 Re1+ 4.Re4 Nf3+ 5.Kf4 Rxe4+ >6.Kxe4 Ka7 7.Kxf3 (94.217) 471.0 > 7.01 0:00 -3.93 1...Rd1 2.Ne5 Re1 3.Rc5 Nf3 4.g7 Nd4+ 5.Kf7 (128.137) 474.5 > 7.02 0:00 -3.92++ 1...Rd8 2.Ne5 Re8+ 3.Kf7 Rxe5 4.Rc8+ Ka7 5.g7 (138.085) >476.1 > 7.02 0:00 -3.57++ 1...Rd8 2.Ne5 Re8+ 3.Kf7 Rxe5 4.Rxh4 (150.721) 486.1 > 7.02 0:00 -3.51 1...Rd8 2.Nh6 Ng2 3.f6 Rf8 4.Ng4 Ne3 (199.233) 485.9 > 8.01 0:00 -3.76-- 1...Rd8 2.Nh6 Ng2 3.f6 Rf8 4.g7 Ka7 5.gxf8Q Nf4+ 6.Rxf4 >(245.678) 491.3 > 8.01 0:00 -4.07 1...Rd8 2.Nh6 Ng2 3.f6 Rf8 4.g7 Rxf6+ 5.Kd7 Rg6 6.g8Q+ Rxg8 >7.Nxg8 (311.568) 502.5 > 8.02 0:00 -4.06++ 1...Rd1 2.Ne5 Re1 3.Rc5 Rg1 4.Be2 (357.657) 510.2 > 8.02 0:00 -3.91 1...Rd1 2.Ne5 Re1 3.Rc5 Rg1 4.Bc4 Bxe5 5.Rb5+ Kc7 6.Kxe5 >(387.763) 509.5 > 9.01 0:01 -4.16-- 1...Rd1 2.Ne5 Re1 3.Rc5 Bxe5 4.Rxe5 Rd1 5.g7 Rd5 (535.029) >518.9 > 9.01 0:01 -4.54 1...Rd1 2.Ne5 Re1 3.Rc5 Re3 4.g7 Rg3 5.Nc6+ Ka8 6.f6 >(709.127) 524.5 > 9.02 0:01 -4.53++ 1...Rd8 2.Nh6 Ng2 3.f6 Rf8 4.Rc8+ Rxc8 5.Ke7 (800.161) >525.7 > 9.02 0:01 -4.18++ 1...Rd8 2.Nh6 Ng2 3.f6 Rf8 4.Rc8+ Rxc8 5.Nf5 (839.680) >527.4 > 9.02 0:01 -4.18 1...Rd8 2.Nf6 Ka7 3.Rxh4 Kxa6 4.g7 Bxf6 5.Kxf6 Ka5 6.Rh8 b3 >7.Rxd8 (992.699) 527.4 > 9.22 0:02 -4.15++ 1...Nxf5 2.Kxf5 (1.199.702) 532.4 > 9.22 0:02 -4.15 1...Nxf5 2.Kxf5 (1.199.703) 530.1 > 10.01 0:02 -4.15 1...Nxf5 2.Kxf5 (1.199.704) 530.1 > 11.01 0:04 -3.90++ 1...Nxf5 2.Kxf5 Rd5+ 3.Ke6 Rg5 4.Kf7 Rf5+ 5.Ke8 Rg5 6.Nh6 >(2.221.819) 539.8 > 11.01 0:04 -3.80 1...Nxf5 2.Kxf5 Rd5+ 3.Ke6 Rg5 4.Kf7 Rf5+ 5.Kg8 Rg5 6.Kh7 >Ka7 7.Kh6 (2.306.924) 543.3 > 12.01 0:06 -3.60 1...Nxf5 2.Kxf5 Rd5+ 3.Ke6 Rg5 4.Kf7 Rf5+ 5.Kg8 Rg5 6.Kh7 >Ka7 7.Bc8 (3.713.093) 546.9 > 13.01 0:11 -3.58 1...Nxf5 2.Kxf5 Rd5+ 3.Ke6 Rg5 4.Kf7 Rf5+ 5.Kg8 Rg5 6.Kh7 >Ka7 7.Bc8 (6.064.995) 532.6 > 14.01 0:20 -3.69 1...Nxf5 2.Kxf5 Rd5+ 3.Ke6 Rg5 4.Kf7 Rf5+ 5.Kg8 Rg5 6.Kh7 >Ka7 7.Bc8 Kb6 8.Bd7 (11.053.434) 533.2 > 15.01 0:44 -3.44++ 1...Nxf5 2.Kxf5 Rd5+ 3.Ke6 Rg5 4.Kf7 Rf5+ 5.Kg8 Rg5 6.g7 >(22.955.515) 514.6 > 15.01 0:53 -3.10 1...Nxf5 2.Kxf5 Rd5+ 3.Ke4 Rd6 4.Rc8+ Ka7 5.Bc4 Rxg6 6.Ne3 >Rg7 7.Nd5 Rg4+ 8.Kd3 Rg3+ 9.Ke2 Rg7 10.Rf8 (27.889.315) 518.5 > 16.01 1:52 -2.94 1...Nxf5 2.Kxf5 Rd5+ 3.Ke4 Rd6 4.Bc8 Rxg6 5.Kd3 Rd6+ 6.Kc2 >Rd2+ 7.Kb3 Bg7 8.Bf5 (57.503.138) 510.7 > 17.01 3:22 -2.83 1...Nxf5 2.Kxf5 Rd5+ 3.Ke4 Rd6 4.Rc8+ Ka7 5.Be2 Rxg6 6.Kd3 >Bg7 7.Kc2 b3+ 8.Kb1 Kb6 9.Ne3 Rg1+ 10.Rc1 (103.811.322) 513.6 > 18.01 6:26 -2.85 1...Nxf5 2.Kxf5 Rd5+ 3.Ke4 Rd6 4.Rc8+ Ka7 5.Bb5 Kb7 6.Rc5 >Rxg6 7.Ne3 Kb6 8.Rd5 b3 9.Nc4+ Kb7 (197.104.454) 510.3 > 19.01 13:41 -2.85 1...Nxf5 2.Kxf5 Rd5+ 3.Ke4 Rd6 4.Rc8+ Ka7 5.Bb5 Rxg6 6.Ne3 >Kb7 7.Rc5 Bg7 8.Nd5 b3 9.Bd7 Rg3 10.Rb5+ (413.891.384) 503.8 >best move: Nh4xf5 time: 22:32.595 min n/s: 505.376 CPU 96.8% nodes: >683.569.436 TB: 1.256.460 This is a type of position where a drawscore may not be suitable. A draw score is often reached when the program reached a point where the programmer has defined it a draw. Fro example, bishop and the wrong color rook pawn. Other instances may be a the 50 move rule, repetition and "equal" pieces with no pawns. I don't see in this instance a program is going to see a "draw" in the search , thus the drawscore is inappropriate. The best you're going to do is find the bext move, Nxf5 which most programs do.
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