Author: Tord Romstad
Date: 10:52:40 09/15/03
Go up one level in this thread
On September 15, 2003 at 13:23:14, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>On September 15, 2003 at 12:55:53, Tord Romstad wrote:
>
>>On September 15, 2003 at 12:29:52, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>
>>>On September 15, 2003 at 12:25:25, Tord Romstad wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 14, 2003 at 17:58:56, Roy Eassa wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>[d] 4r1k1/p4ppp/1p1q1n2/1Pb1n3/8/1N4P1/PB3PBP/2RQ2K1 b - - 0 1
>>>>>Brutus played ...Bxf2+
>>>>>
>>>>>1... Bxf2+!?
>>>>
>>>>Like Will Singleton, I think many (perhaps even most) programs will
>>>>play Bxf2, but I think finding a win for white will take a very long
>>>>time.
>>>>
>>>>Gothmog 0.3.0 plays Bxf2 after less than 4 seconds, but it's a purely
>>>>speculative sacrifice. The score is not at all convincing:
>>>
>>>It is not speculative, it is almost forced. Everything else is very bad for
>>>white.
>>
>>Sorry, I should have been clearer. I meant that Gothmog plays Bxf2 as
>>a speculative sacrifice, from a subjective point of view. It does not
>>see a win for black, but just gambles that black's attacking chances will
>>be sufficient to compensate for the piece.
>>
>>Tord
>
>You are the programmer ...
>
>But if your program also sees in less than 4 seconds that
>1... Nd3 is bad because of the forced
>2. Nxc5 bxc5 3. Bf1 Re1 4. Qd2 Rxc1 5. Bxc1 c4 6. Qc3 Qd5 7. Bxd3 Qxd3
>8. Qxd3 cxd3 (with clearly better endgame for white) then it would be quite an
>achievement.
No, my program doesn't see that. In the position after 1... Nd3, Gothmog
gives white just a tiny plus score even after 15 plies (which takes 4
minutes and 22 seconds to complete):
1 -0.36 0.00 497 b3c5 e8e1
2 -0.36 0.01 1340 b3c5 e8e1 d1e1 d3e1
3 -0.36 0.03 3260 b3c5 e8e1 d1e1 d3e1
4 -0.33 0.11 12819 b3c5 e8e1 d1e1 d3e1 c5d3
5 -0.30 0.20 26332 b3c5 b6c5 d1d2 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4
6 >= -0.30 0.23 30586 b3c5 b6c5 d1d2 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4
6 <= -0.30 0.35 49119 b3c5 b6c5 d1d2 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4
6 -0.30 0.35 49119 b3c5 b6c5 d1d2 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4
7 >= -0.30 0.49 65397 b3c5 b6c5 d1d2 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 b2c3
7 >= -0.28 0.49 66535 b3c5 b6c5 d1d2 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 b2c3
7 >= -0.22 0.50 69178 b3c5 b6c5 d1d2 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 b2c3
7 <= -0.09 0.71 100417 b3c5 b6c5 d1d2 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 b2c3
7 <= -0.11 0.71 102881 b3c5 b6c5 d1d2 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 b2c3
7 >= -0.12 0.80 114613 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 f2f4
7 >= -0.11 0.81 115544 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 f2f4
7 -0.11 0.81 115544 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 f2f4
8 <= -0.12 1.15 176408 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 f2f4 c5c4
8 <= -0.14 1.21 189196 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 f2f4 c5c4
8 <= -0.17 1.24 197581 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 f2f4 c5c4
8 <= -0.25 1.34 217917 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 f2f4 c5c4
8 >= -0.39 1.55 258006 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 f2f4 c5c4
8 >= -0.38 1.56 261944 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 f2f4 c5c4
8 >= -0.31 1.59 269603 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 f2f4 c5c4
8 <= -0.27 1.62 278707 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 f2f4 c5c4
8 <= -0.28 1.64 286281 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 f2f4 c5c4
8 >= -0.30 1.66 290855 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 f2f4 c5c4
8 >= -0.28 1.67 295300 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 f2f4 c5c4
8 -0.28 1.67 295300 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 f2f4 c5c4
9 >= -0.28 2.23 402204 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 c1c2 c5c4
d1f3
9 >= -0.27 2.25 410168 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 c1c2 c5c4
d1f3
9 >= -0.20 2.30 426036 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 c1a1
9 <= -0.08 3.10 611974 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 c1a1
9 <= -0.09 3.18 647218 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 c1a1
9 <= -0.12 3.29 690715 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 c1a1
9 >= -0.19 3.30 697664 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 c1a1
9 <= -0.19 3.47 757794 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 c1a1
9 -0.19 3.47 757794 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 c1a1
10 <= -0.20 5.09 1125515 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 c1a1 c5c4
d1f3 d6e6
10 <= -0.22 5.24 1184546 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 c1a1 c5c4
d1f3 d6e6
10 <= -0.25 5.46 1259038 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 c1a1 d6d7
d1f3 f7f5
10 >= -0.31 6.32 1438807 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 d1d2 c5c4
f2f3 d6c5 g1g2
10 >= -0.30 6.35 1450739 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 d1d2 c5c4
f2f3 d6c5 g1g2
10 <= -0.27 6.79 1568715 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 d1d2 c5c4
f2f3 d6c5 g1g2
10 <= -0.28 7.00 1644931 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 d1d2 c5c4
f2f3 d6c5 g1g2
10 <= -0.30 7.19 1715613 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 d1d2 d6d5
f2f3 e4e6
10 -0.30 7.19 1715613 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 d1d2 d6d5
f2f3 e4e6
11 >= -0.30 9.53 2232790 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 d1d2 d6d5
f2f3 e4e6 g1g2
11 >= -0.28 9.74 2292778 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 d1d2 d6d5
f2f3 e4e6 g1g2
11 <= -0.23 13.07 3091972 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 d1d2 c5c4
f2f3 d6c5 g1g2 e4e3
11 <= -0.25 13.30 3186733 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 d1d2 c5c4
f2f3 d6c5 g1g2 e4e3
11 >= -0.27 13.43 3227349 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 d1d2 c5c4
f2f3 d6c5 g1g2 e4e3
11 <= -0.27 14.12 3431679 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 d1d2 c5c4
f2f3 d6c5 g1g2 e4e3
11 -0.27 14.12 3431679 b3c5 b6c5 b2c3 f6e4 g2e4 e8e4 d1d2 c5c4
f2f3 d6c5 g1g2 e4e3
12 >= -0.27 19.55 4702432 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2e3 d3c1 e3c1
12 >= -0.25 19.78 4779777 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2e3 d3c1 e3c1
12 <= -0.20 26.06 6300015 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2e3 d6d7 c1a3
12 <= -0.22 26.67 6497031 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2e3 d6d7 c1a3
12 <= -0.25 27.66 6796099 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2e3 h7h6
12 -0.25 27.66 6796099 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2e3 h7h6
13 >= -0.25 33.27 8158728 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2e3 h7h6 c1d2 d3e5 f2f3
13 >= -0.23 33.97 8408941 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2e3 h7h6 c1d2 d3e5 f2f3
13 <= -0.19 50.44 12239352 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2e3 d6d7 c1a3 d7b5 e3a7
13 <= -0.20 52.23 12757332 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2e3 d6d7 c1a3 d7b5 e3a7
13 >= -0.22 52.68 12922702 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2e3 d6d7 c1a3 d7b5 e3a7
13 <= -0.22 54.40 13472191 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2e3 d6d7 c1a3 d7b5
13 -0.22 54.40 13472191 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2e3 d6d7 c1a3 d7b5
14 >= -0.22 66.07 16229622 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2e3 d6d7 c1d2 f6d5 e3d4
14 >= -0.20 67.80 16777457 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
c1b2 f6e4 d2e3 d3b2 e3e4
14 >= -0.14 69.97 17469201 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3 c1d2
14 >= 0.00 74.36 18702800 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3 c1d2
14 <= 0.23 105.87 26297318 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3 c1d2
14 <= 0.22 109.53 27673681 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3 c1d2
14 <= 0.19 113.68 29234442 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3 c1d2
14 <= 0.11 120.46 31517593 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3 c1d2
14 >= 0.02 122.60 32139163 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3 c1d2
14 >= 0.03 123.52 32481241 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3 c1d2
14 <= 0.08 127.85 34122123 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3 c1d2
14 <= 0.06 133.27 35979810 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3 c1d2
14 >= 0.05 134.35 36340880 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3 c1d2
14 <= 0.05 137.79 37740565 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3 c1d2
14 0.05 137.79 37740565 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3 c1d2
15 >= 0.05 171.86 45785369 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3 c1d2
15 >= 0.06 176.97 47235542 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3 c1d2
15 <= 0.11 242.25 62462485 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3
15 <= 0.09 252.99 65653207 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3
15 <= 0.06 262.10 68598757 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3
15 0.06 262.10 68598757 b3c5 b6c5 g2f1 e8e1 d1d2 e1c1 b2c1 c5c4
d2c2 d6d5 f1d3 d5d3 c2d3 c4d3
Tord
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