Computer Chess Club Archives


Search

Terms

Messages

Subject: Re: Deep Blue's 8.Nxe6 in Game 6 a forced win?

Author: Uri Blass

Date: 12:15:43 09/15/03

Go up one level in this thread


On September 15, 2003 at 14:58:24, Uri Blass wrote:

>On September 15, 2003 at 14:39:45, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>
>>On September 15, 2003 at 13:33:16, Uri Blass wrote:
>>
>>>On September 15, 2003 at 12:20:17, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>>
>>>>On September 15, 2003 at 09:54:51, Jim Monaghan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On September 15, 2003 at 09:11:25, emerson tan wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>I played a 24 game match between Shredder 6.02 and Hiarcs 7.32 with the
>>>>>>following opening.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nd7 5.Ng5 Ngf6 6.Bd3 e6 7.N1f3 h6 8.Nxe6
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Time control was 40/4hrs + 20/2hrs + 2hrs to finish on a 1.8 Ghz processor.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Shredder played all the white games and Hiracs all the black games. The score
>>>>>>went 13-11 in Hiarcs favor. Only a couple of games were drawn.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I choose Shredder 6.02 to have white because it likes whites position and
>>>>>>without an opening book, it will play the 8.Nxe6 sacrifice. Also, Shredder has a
>>>>>>positional learning. I choose Hiarcs for black solely because of its positional
>>>>>>learning. Positional learning is important in this one opening match since it
>>>>>>will be able to learn and improve its next play based on the same opening.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Maybe 8.Nxe6 is not a forced win for white. Maybe Kasparov can study it and use
>>>>>>it in some high profile match against computers since most of the programmers
>>>>>>might put it in their books thinking its a forced win for white.
>>>>>
>>>>>Interesting test. I think you've shown that the position after 8.Nxe6 is roughly
>>>>>equal when played by two opponents with near perfect board sight and no
>>>>>emotions.
>>>>
>>>>Near perfect board sight? :)
>>>>
>>>>Shredder 6 and Hiarcs 7.32 have in fact no idea what is going on here.
>>>>White has a long-lasting positional advantage for the piece and will finally win
>>>>material and the game. Nobody dares to play 7...h6? in Correspondence games
>>>>because it is suicide.
>>>>
>>>>This position is a "Buch mit 7 Siegeln" for a Computer :)
>>>>Shredder 7.04 gives high score for white but it does not play the best moves.
>>>>
>>>>Michael
>>>
>>>Some questions:
>>>1)Did you beat programs with white after 7...h6?
>>
>>No, but I also did not lose or draw against any program after h6 :)
>>
>>>2)Can you give examples when you claim that shredder7.04 does not play the best
>>>moves?
>>
>>I have a theoretical articel about this line. Shredder analysed some critical
>>positions.
>>One example:
>>
>>[Event "?"]
>>[Site "?"]
>>[Date "2003.09.15"]
>>[Round "?"]
>>[White "?"]
>>[Black "?"]
>>[Result "*"]
>>[PlyCount "30"]
>>[EventDate "2003.09.15"]
>>
>>1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nd7 5. Ng5 Ngf6 6. Bd3 e6 7. N1f3 h6 8.
>>Nxe6 fxe6 9. Bg6+ Ke7 10. O-O Qc7 11. Re1 Kd8 12. c4 Bb4 13. Bd2 Bxd2 14. Qxd2
>>Nf8 15. Bc2 Bd7 *
>>
>>Shredder 7.04 likes to play a4-a5-a6 here for a long time.
>>
>>Michael
>
>Movei also likes a4
>What is the right plan for white?
>
>I see nothing good for white after 15.Bc2 Bd7.
>
>Uri

I see now that it is taken from a game that Eduard posted and white played
b4 and Bb3 and won the game.

I thought about b4 but not about Bb3

I am still not convinced that black needs to lose the game and it seems
that the human blundered between move 25 and move 30.

Uri



This page took 0 seconds to execute

Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700

Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.