Author: Drexel,Michael
Date: 12:44:02 09/15/03
Go up one level in this thread
On September 15, 2003 at 15:15:43, Uri Blass wrote: >On September 15, 2003 at 14:58:24, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On September 15, 2003 at 14:39:45, Drexel,Michael wrote: >> >>>On September 15, 2003 at 13:33:16, Uri Blass wrote: >>> >>>>On September 15, 2003 at 12:20:17, Drexel,Michael wrote: >>>> >>>>>On September 15, 2003 at 09:54:51, Jim Monaghan wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On September 15, 2003 at 09:11:25, emerson tan wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>I played a 24 game match between Shredder 6.02 and Hiarcs 7.32 with the >>>>>>>following opening. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nd7 5.Ng5 Ngf6 6.Bd3 e6 7.N1f3 h6 8.Nxe6 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Time control was 40/4hrs + 20/2hrs + 2hrs to finish on a 1.8 Ghz processor. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Shredder played all the white games and Hiracs all the black games. The score >>>>>>>went 13-11 in Hiarcs favor. Only a couple of games were drawn. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>I choose Shredder 6.02 to have white because it likes whites position and >>>>>>>without an opening book, it will play the 8.Nxe6 sacrifice. Also, Shredder has a >>>>>>>positional learning. I choose Hiarcs for black solely because of its positional >>>>>>>learning. Positional learning is important in this one opening match since it >>>>>>>will be able to learn and improve its next play based on the same opening. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Maybe 8.Nxe6 is not a forced win for white. Maybe Kasparov can study it and use >>>>>>>it in some high profile match against computers since most of the programmers >>>>>>>might put it in their books thinking its a forced win for white. >>>>>> >>>>>>Interesting test. I think you've shown that the position after 8.Nxe6 is roughly >>>>>>equal when played by two opponents with near perfect board sight and no >>>>>>emotions. >>>>> >>>>>Near perfect board sight? :) >>>>> >>>>>Shredder 6 and Hiarcs 7.32 have in fact no idea what is going on here. >>>>>White has a long-lasting positional advantage for the piece and will finally win >>>>>material and the game. Nobody dares to play 7...h6? in Correspondence games >>>>>because it is suicide. >>>>> >>>>>This position is a "Buch mit 7 Siegeln" for a Computer :) >>>>>Shredder 7.04 gives high score for white but it does not play the best moves. >>>>> >>>>>Michael >>>> >>>>Some questions: >>>>1)Did you beat programs with white after 7...h6? >>> >>>No, but I also did not lose or draw against any program after h6 :) >>> >>>>2)Can you give examples when you claim that shredder7.04 does not play the best >>>>moves? >>> >>>I have a theoretical articel about this line. Shredder analysed some critical >>>positions. >>>One example: >>> >>>[Event "?"] >>>[Site "?"] >>>[Date "2003.09.15"] >>>[Round "?"] >>>[White "?"] >>>[Black "?"] >>>[Result "*"] >>>[PlyCount "30"] >>>[EventDate "2003.09.15"] >>> >>>1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nd7 5. Ng5 Ngf6 6. Bd3 e6 7. N1f3 h6 8. >>>Nxe6 fxe6 9. Bg6+ Ke7 10. O-O Qc7 11. Re1 Kd8 12. c4 Bb4 13. Bd2 Bxd2 14. Qxd2 >>>Nf8 15. Bc2 Bd7 * >>> >>>Shredder 7.04 likes to play a4-a5-a6 here for a long time. >>> >>>Michael >> >>Movei also likes a4 >>What is the right plan for white? >> >>I see nothing good for white after 15.Bc2 Bd7. >> >>Uri > >I see now that it is taken from a game that Eduard posted and white played >b4 and Bb3 and won the game. > >I thought about b4 but not about Bb3 > >I am still not convinced that black needs to lose the game and it seems >that the human blundered between move 25 and move 30. > >Uri Well, white has many other options here Ne5,f4,Re3,Rae1 for example. Michael
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