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Subject: Re: Draw? Not so easy...

Author: Vincent Diepeveen

Date: 16:22:19 09/18/03

Go up one level in this thread


On September 18, 2003 at 16:36:09, Andrew Dados wrote:

you would be correct wasn't it the case that the rules say that you need 1
additional move left. So both in zugzwang which is easy to get that is defined a
draw.

That's why i guess outcome is a draw.

>On September 18, 2003 at 10:27:33, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>
>>On September 18, 2003 at 10:02:33, Edward Seid wrote:
>>
>>A very illusional game thanks to the rules. Trivially with the normal chess
>>rules this is a much easier game to keep a draw than without :)
>>
>>If white goes e4, then black answers e5.
>>If white goes a3 then black goes a6 in principle.
>>
>>In short the only option white has is to start with a pawn to the 3d rank one
>>day.
>>
>>Instead very clever pruning methods involving a passer that's unstoppable and
>>further than any pawn of the opponent, will reduce search space significantly.
>>
>>A good winning attempt for white is illustrated by a well known trick where 3
>>pawns at a4,b4,c4 win always from pawns at a6 b6 c6 as you can create a passer.
>>
>>So that is the only trick white can go for.
>>
>>Starting with for example 1.a4,a5 2.c3,c6 3.b4
>>
>>now white can capture on a5 winning a move and after winning that move it can
>>win another tempo by playing a6 bxa6 a5!, but black cannot play b5 creating
>>symmetry.
>>
>>So i would go 3..b6 there
>>
>>Now c4 is never possible as you after axb4 can already evaluate that as a loss
>>for white.
>>
>>b5 is never possible for white and bxa6 doesn't solve a thing forever.
>>
>>4.d4 is answerred by d5.
>>
>>So playing for semi-symmetry for black is already very effective.
>>
>>So the first guess that this would be a simple draw for black is not exactly
>>true, but at second glance a few simple rules will produce great killermoves for
>>black.
>>
>>A good evaluation function and move ordering can do miracles in this game to
>>find out it is a draw.
>
>After a few moves like that white will get in zugzwang and black wins. Remember
>- no King in this game.
>
>-Andrew-
>
>
>>
>>>I'm learning how to program by reading Deitel's Visual Basic.NET How to Program.
>>> I'm eager to try out my new skills on a chess-related project.
>>>
>>>The Pawn Game - as presented by GM Lev Alburt in Comprehensive Chess Course, Vol
>>>1
>>>
>>>[D]8/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/8 w - - 0 0
>>>
>>>The game is won by:
>>>1- capturing all of the opponent's pawns
>>>2- reaching the last rank first
>>>3- 'stalemating' the opponent, while still having at least one move for yourself
>>>
>>>The game is drawn if:
>>>1- both sides' pawns are blocked so that neither side can make any moves
>>>
>>>The programming exercise I've assigned to myself it to try to solve this game
>>>using brute-force minimax.  My question to you... can this game be solved on
>>>today's typical desktop computer using brute-force?
>>>
>>>I've been thinking about this and have made the following observations:
>>>1- while classical chess has a branching factor of around 30, the Pawn Game
>>>branching factor is 16 in the initial position, and around 8 in the
>>>'middlegame', and goes down with each capture.
>>>2- the longest 'game' is certainly less than 81 ply, and is probably around
>>>60-65 (81 ply is calculated by the impossible scenario of each side taking 40
>>>ply each to march all pawns to the 7th rank + 1 ply to promote)
>>>
>>>I'm not planning to use anything fancy like hashtables or board rotation.  I'd
>>>be happy if I'm successful in coding a 10x12 board representation (practice for
>>>writing a classical chess engine in the future), a valid pawn move generator,
>>>and a correct implementation of the minimax algorithm.
>>>
>>>I'm very curious what the solution to this game is.  Is it a win/loss/draw for
>>>White?  Of the 16 possible White moves, which ones win/lose/draw?  How long is
>>>the longest game?  How long is the shortest game?  What is the distribution of
>>>wins amongst the 3 methods of winning?
>>>
>>>Any thoughts or suggestions are appreciated.



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