Author: Uri Blass
Date: 06:37:45 09/19/03
Go up one level in this thread
On September 19, 2003 at 08:33:48, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>On September 19, 2003 at 06:32:17, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On September 19, 2003 at 03:11:37, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>
>>>On September 18, 2003 at 10:51:42, Jonas Soderberg wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi
>>>>In my opinion there are several programs but for mainly two different purposes.
>>>>
>>>>1) Playing against
>>>>Here I find Delfi and Rebel to be very attractive in playing style when you set
>>>>the strength to a suitable ELO. They are playing rather realistic (human) even
>>>>at my level ;-)
>>>>
>>>
>>>I dont agree at all. Delfi does dont play rather realistic human chess IMO.
>>>Just tested it a bit. Delfi played with its own small book.
>>>
>>>[Event "Blitz:10'+5""]
>>>[Site "?"]
>>>[Date "2003.09.19"]
>>>[Round "?"]
>>>[White "Drexel"]
>>>[Black "Delfi 4.2 ELO_STRENGTH=1750"]
>>>[Result "1-0"]
>>>[ECO "D05"]
>>>[PlyCount "37"]
>>>[TimeControl "600+5"]
>>>
>>>{64MB, Empty.ctg, ATHLON2000} 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 c5 3. e3 Nc6 4. c3 e6 5. Nbd2 d5
>>>6.Bd3 c4 7. Bc2 Bd6 8. e4 Nxe4 9. Nxe4 dxe4 10. Bxe4 Bd7 11. O-O O-O 12. Re1 Qb6
>>>13. Ng5 h6 14. Nh7 Rfd8 15. Bxh6 gxh6 16. Qg4+ Kh8 17. Qh5 Nxd4 18. Qxh6 Nb5
>>>19. Nf6# 1-0
>>>
>>>I played the Colle because it is rather popular at this level.
>>>1750 humans have already pretty much chess knowledge. I dont expect a 1750 in my
>>>country to play 6...c4.
>>
>>I suspect it is dependent on the human.
>>I think that I am better than 1750 of your country(I have israeli rating 1997)
>>and I do not see a big problem with c4(but I also do not play this opening).
>
>I didnt say there is a big problem with c4. It is just very unusual and marked
>as mistake in the books. A move that is considered bad (because it leads to a
>difficult position to handle) for humans is not necessarily a mistake from a
>computer point of view.
>>
>>Of course Nxd4 is a tactical mistake and I do not see more than a draw for black
>>after a move like Kg7
>
>Maybe Fritz does not see more than a draw:
>18.Qg4+ Kh8 19.Qh4 +-
I see now the reason
18.Qg4+ Kh8 leads to repetition that is considered as a draw by programs.
you are right that gxh6 is a mistake but this mistake is not
>
>15...gxh6 was decisive mistake, btw
>>
>>I agree that delfi does not play like humans if it play that blunder.
>>Humans do tactical mistakes but different mistakes and even 1600 players do not
>>miss an obvious threat like Qxh6 and Nf6# even in 600+5 time control.
>>
>>
>>>I also dont expect a 1750 to play moves like 12...Qb6 and especially 17...Nxd4
>>>and finally it missed am mate in one.
>>
>>I do not see that 12...Qb6 as a big mistake but I agree that I expect humans to
>>be afraid to play it.
>>
>>Movei prefers Qc7
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Playing against Computers is definitely not a good way to improve your chess.
>>
>>I guess that it is dependent on your level.
>>
>>tactics is important in chess and I guess that most players at the level of 1750
>>can get at least 200 elo better by only avoiding tactical mistakes that chess
>>programs can avoid in less than a second.
>
>That insight does not help the 1750 player much.
>He wants to know how he can learn to avoid tactical mistakes.
I believe that learning from the games that he play against computer may help
him to do it.
I agree that only playing without learning from the games is not useful.
My thoughts about this is that the best way is not to concentrate most of the
time in playing because you may play some hours only to learn from few mistakes
but to concentrate in exercises when you take a lot of positions when human
players at similiar level did a tactical mistake and your target is to avoid a
tactical mistake.
Uri
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