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Subject: Re: Hyperthreading question on duals, I know it's bad but why?

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 14:27:00 09/19/03

Go up one level in this thread


On September 19, 2003 at 04:15:49, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:

>On September 18, 2003 at 19:06:54, Eugene Nalimov wrote:
>
>>>>>>No there isn't, because for single and dual machines, the NUMA issue can
>>>>>>pretty well be ignored
>>>>>
>>>>>Ignored? You _will_ get a performance handicap if you do so.
>>>>>
>>>>>--
>>>>>GCP
>>>>
>>>>Yes, but on a dual it is a _minimal_ handicap.
>>>
>>>Last week, this 'minimal' handicap was enough to require a special
>>>version of Crafty. Now it's not needed for the Linux kernel? Uhh...
>>
>>I believe you never participated in a *huge* software project.
>[irrelevant blabla]
>>And so on, and so on...
>
>This is all fine and dandy, but it has absolutely nothing to do with the
>discussion at hand.
>
>Bob has been going on for a week about how he was going to make Crafty NUMA
>because that last 10% (or less) was so important, that it certainly _couldn't_
>be ignored.

"shouldn't be ignored".

Also I haven't "been going on for a week about how I was going to do
_anything_."  The question was asked.  I answered it.


>
>Now he's saying the exact same thing is irrelevant, and the Linux kernel
>people can ignore it.

Where did I say that?  I _never_ said it.  I said that linux on a dual
NUMA box works pretty well "as is".  On a larger box it needs work.

pretty simple statement, to me...




>
>I realize all too well the Linux kernel is a bigger project, but it's also
>got quite a few more people working on it, quite a few more testers, and
>quite a few more users than Crafty NUMA will ever have.
>
>For Crafty, that last 10% is so important, but for a project that's used by
>1000x of times more users, it's irrevelant? That just makes no sense!

Only because you aren't following the conversation...  nobody said what you
are claiming.


>
>Whether or not it takes a lot of work is completely irrevelant. This discussion
>is about whether you can ignore the small speed advantage or not. Of course
>it'll take a while to implement and bring problems! But do you _have_ to do
>the effort or not?

On a dual NUMA box, the O/S issues are far less worrisome than for a 32-cpu
box (or larger).  I'm not going to take the time to go into why unless it is
really necessary.  For crafty, it will run on a dual NUMA box with no
problems.  Eugene can give you some numbers for a NUMA Itanium if nis NDA is
not still in force.  He can also tell you what happened when he tried more
processors...




>
>The real world (in case the Linux people) seem to disagree with you as well,
>because they're quite well aware of their problems with NUMA architectures
>as simple as the Opterons and _are_ working to improve the support.
>
>There will be a lot of Linux servers running on Opterons and having a
>performance handicap as compared to Windows boxen in that regard is not
>something that is acceptable for them.
>
>--
>GCP

Of course it isn't, but at the moment there are not a "log of opterons"
around.  The demand is low, for the moment.




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