Author: Vincent Diepeveen
Date: 15:02:37 09/27/03
Go up one level in this thread
On September 26, 2003 at 19:19:01, Christophe Theron wrote: >On September 26, 2003 at 18:34:12, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On September 26, 2003 at 18:22:32, Uri Blass wrote: >> >>>On September 26, 2003 at 17:46:06, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>> >>>>On September 26, 2003 at 16:49:22, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>> >>>>>On September 25, 2003 at 23:02:20, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On September 25, 2003 at 12:53:42, Christophe Theron wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On September 25, 2003 at 09:41:05, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On September 25, 2003 at 09:15:09, José de Jesús García Ruvalcaba wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On September 25, 2003 at 08:26:21, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>ICGA asked me to Call for participation in the world championship 2003. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>So far only 3 programs subscribed to join the world championship computerchess. >>>>>>>>>>DIEP is one of them, i guess Brutus the other one. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>And there three types of people: those who can count and those who can not. >>>>>>>>>José (: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>P.S. Good luck and lots of fun the world championship! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Ah just had email from Stefan, they all didn't know you had to register 'so >>>>>>>>soon'. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Usually world champs most things get organized at the tournament day itself, >>>>>>>>i remember especially the paniccing phase 1 short before the world champs >>>>>>>>started in October 1997, Paris :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Not a single organizer there from the home organisation (so not ICGA) spoke a >>>>>>>>word English (and my english isn't that good either, for sure in 1997 it was >>>>>>>>horror & co too), Dutch or German and my French is horrible, so i just sat >>>>>>>>down at a chair, installed my computer and just guessed what the hand movements >>>>>>>>of the home organisation meant. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>They must have guessed in advance to only receive French speaking participants, >>>>>>>>a normal assumption for French organisers :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>That's really unfair. The 1997 World Championship organization in Paris was >>>>>>>great. Remember that we were playing not in some obscure university hall, we >>>>>>>were playing in the "Palais de la Bourse". >>>>>> >>>>>>There were good things and bad things. i bet it was great for french speaking. >>>>>> >>>>>>bad was all the neonazi demonstrations and the real long waiting times to just >>>>>>get past the 2 security checks each time. >>>>>> >>>>>>bad was not having any internet there or any other contacts to the outside >>>>>>world, i would not be able to imagine in 2003 to be without internet. >>>>>> >>>>>>publicity was real bad of the tournament. >>>>>> >>>>>>nothing online. really nothing. i remember thorsten czub phoning during the >>>>>>rounds to the outside world at his mobile phone the results, otherwise they >>>>>>wouldn't even know the results. >>>>>> >>>>>>So publicity was non existing. >>>>>> >>>>>>Considering the huge staff of frenchmen running in panic mode around during the >>>>>>whole tournament that was really a bloody shame, but what we would call here >>>>>>'typical french chaosmanagement' :) >>>>>> >>>>>>Bad was that it took so long to just get outside of the building to just get 1 >>>>>>small bread for example. >>>>>> >>>>>>Good was that each morning when walking to the tournament hall i could order for >>>>>>if i remember well 6 franc or something a big fresh bread at a breadshop. That >>>>>>tasted real good! >>>>>> >>>>>>bad was fact that there was still too many world titles then. There were just 3 >>>>>>competitors if i remember well for the professional world title. Virtual chess, >>>>>>CSTal and Fritz. >>>>>> >>>>>>Good was that after a few days there was very cheap drinks IN the tournament >>>>>>hall supplied by organisation. >>>>>> >>>>>>Good was that it was possible to walk around without problems in the tournament >>>>>>hall, in 2001 maastricht for example i found the location a bloody shame. They >>>>>>corrected that great in 2002 though in Maastricht. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>OK, so in short the good parts were the french bread and free drinks and that it >>>>>was possible to walk during the rounds. >>>>> >>>>>If you like the french bread you should try our chess programs. Some of them >>>>>would give you a good run for the money. ;) >>>> >>>>Well meeting each culture at a world champs is real important and leaves an >>>>impression that lasts forever. >>>> >>>>But the french bread,.... everyone must try it :) >>>> >>>>But the Tiger, well perhaps it plays me to french bread, so let's not try it too >>>>soon :) >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>The main problem I remember there was AMD. They sponsored the event and provided >>>>>> >>>>>>Oh the hardware, well Kallisto was sponsored a PII300 by intel. Kallisto however >>>>>>was still 16 bits and way faster (like 50% or some insane big diff) on the >>>>>>233Mhz K7 that Jan Louwman had managed to get too. >>>>>> >>>>>>So officially Kallisto ran on that PII300 but in reality diep ran at it. You >>>>>>couldn't get that cpu in any shop at that time. >>>>>> >>>>>>When i entered with that machine the tournament hall i was amazed to see that >>>>>>half the tournament was carrying a PII300 with him :) >>>>>> >>>>>>The toledo2000 programmer was not understanding that his DOS just went up to >>>>>>64MB hashtables instead of the full 128MB that he had on the PII300 machine :) >>>>>> >>>>>>But i guess the real bad thing from world champs 1997 in my memory is fact that >>>>>>only search depth mattered there really, assuming a debugged program. I lost >>>>>>game after game thanks to simple tactical errors. 8 ply search for a few moves >>>>>>and DANG opponent starts smiling "i win a piece!". >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Ah well, so that can be put in the "good" column I guess: you discovered there >>>>>that in chess your are helpless if your opponent outsearches you significantly, >>>>>and that you'd better debug your program before the start of the tournament. >>>> >>>>it was tested in 1997 with 1000 games auto232 by Jan Louwman. Without that i bet >>>>it would have crashed like so many others :) >>>> >>>>Well crashing is part of the fun... >>>> >>>>Nowadays some find it bad to crash, but it's part of life. >>>> >>>>Ask the winners of the previous 2 world champs. I remember they crashed last 18 >>>>games they played there around 30 times? >>>> >>>>>You could have discovered that at home, but well. Wisdom is wisdom. >>>> >>>>You don't want to miss the fun 500 processors are going to give in that respect. >>>> >>>>In fact i might get 1 or 2 testruns at 500 processors for 1 hour or so. >>>> >>>>Coming monday morning very early i will have 1 such testruns (those get >>>>scheduled automatically but because the machine is never empty some >>>>administrator must clean by hand the whole machine and let this run, so >>>>practically it only happens when they have maintenance at the machine) so that's >>>>very interesting. >>>> >>>>Some countrymen of yours can't in fact wait for that output. Expected >>>>efficiencyspeedup is a bit less than 37.3%, so you can do the match with 125GB >>>>hashtables at 1 position from >>>> >>>>Nataf - Svidler (Fressinet) >>>> >>>>As you know i managed to help Nataf in FIDE world champs by 'psychologically >>>>motivating' him. >>>> >>>>Hopefully this 500 processor run helps too: >>>> http://www.nao-cc.com/naocc/index.html >>>> >>>>That is what it will analyze some line that is in the 'psychological' interest >>>>of my friend :) >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>In RGCC at the time some people like Bruce and Bob just posted their believe >>>>>>that search depth mattered and the rest was not important at all, especially a >>>>>>good evaluation wouldn't matter at all. >>>>>> >>>>>>Well how they were proven wrong later of course. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>As far as I know nothing has been proved, either way, in this area. >>>> >>>>That is not real true. >>>> >>>>Please delete your current evaluation function and replace it with tiger 1.0 >>>>evaluation functions, preprocessing etc. >>>> >>>>Just make the search the same like it is now and go compare. >>>> >>>>I bet that it will not kick any commercial engine that tiger 1.0 when compared >>>>to the current version. >>>> >>>>>The strength of computers at chess comes from a combination of good search >>>>>techniques and reasonable evaluation, with some emphasis still today on search. >>>>>Don't forget what you have learned in 1997... >>>> >>>>No that's not true. You *can* get another 5 ply easily by using a dumber >>>>evaluation function type Cilkchess. >>> >>>plies are unimportant amd it means nothing. >>>It even does not mean tactical strength because if you prune good lines by null >>>move pruning you can miss tactics. >>> >>>Christophe also did not say that reasonable evaluation is unimportant so your >>>example proves nothing. >>> >>>Uri >> >>the only improvements i see in tiger since version 0.0001 which impressed >>tactically in paderborn a lot of years ago when operated by Thorsten Czub, >>is that tigers evaluation has become better. >> >>I see not a single other improvement in tiger that i find worth mentionning. > > > >Fortunately I do not work in the purpose of impressing you. > >If I did, maybe I would look for a 501 processors computer... That's as >impressive as useless, but maybe some like it... what's wrong with going lossless a few plies deeper? > > Christophe
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