Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 19:10:15 09/27/03
Go up one level in this thread
On September 26, 2003 at 16:49:22, Christophe Theron wrote: >On September 25, 2003 at 23:02:20, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: > >>On September 25, 2003 at 12:53:42, Christophe Theron wrote: >> >>>On September 25, 2003 at 09:41:05, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>> >>>>On September 25, 2003 at 09:15:09, José de Jesús García Ruvalcaba wrote: >>>> >>>>>On September 25, 2003 at 08:26:21, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>ICGA asked me to Call for participation in the world championship 2003. >>>>>> >>>>>>So far only 3 programs subscribed to join the world championship computerchess. >>>>>>DIEP is one of them, i guess Brutus the other one. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>>And there three types of people: those who can count and those who can not. >>>>>José (: >>>>> >>>>>P.S. Good luck and lots of fun the world championship! >>>> >>>>Ah just had email from Stefan, they all didn't know you had to register 'so >>>>soon'. >>>> >>>>Usually world champs most things get organized at the tournament day itself, >>>>i remember especially the paniccing phase 1 short before the world champs >>>>started in October 1997, Paris :) >>>> >>>>Not a single organizer there from the home organisation (so not ICGA) spoke a >>>>word English (and my english isn't that good either, for sure in 1997 it was >>>>horror & co too), Dutch or German and my French is horrible, so i just sat >>>>down at a chair, installed my computer and just guessed what the hand movements >>>>of the home organisation meant. >>>> >>>>They must have guessed in advance to only receive French speaking participants, >>>>a normal assumption for French organisers :) >>> >>> >>> >>>That's really unfair. The 1997 World Championship organization in Paris was >>>great. Remember that we were playing not in some obscure university hall, we >>>were playing in the "Palais de la Bourse". >> >>There were good things and bad things. i bet it was great for french speaking. >> >>bad was all the neonazi demonstrations and the real long waiting times to just >>get past the 2 security checks each time. >> >>bad was not having any internet there or any other contacts to the outside >>world, i would not be able to imagine in 2003 to be without internet. >> >>publicity was real bad of the tournament. >> >>nothing online. really nothing. i remember thorsten czub phoning during the >>rounds to the outside world at his mobile phone the results, otherwise they >>wouldn't even know the results. >> >>So publicity was non existing. >> >>Considering the huge staff of frenchmen running in panic mode around during the >>whole tournament that was really a bloody shame, but what we would call here >>'typical french chaosmanagement' :) >> >>Bad was that it took so long to just get outside of the building to just get 1 >>small bread for example. >> >>Good was that each morning when walking to the tournament hall i could order for >>if i remember well 6 franc or something a big fresh bread at a breadshop. That >>tasted real good! >> >>bad was fact that there was still too many world titles then. There were just 3 >>competitors if i remember well for the professional world title. Virtual chess, >>CSTal and Fritz. >> >>Good was that after a few days there was very cheap drinks IN the tournament >>hall supplied by organisation. >> >>Good was that it was possible to walk around without problems in the tournament >>hall, in 2001 maastricht for example i found the location a bloody shame. They >>corrected that great in 2002 though in Maastricht. > > > >OK, so in short the good parts were the french bread and free drinks and that it >was possible to walk during the rounds. > >If you like the french bread you should try our chess programs. Some of them >would give you a good run for the money. ;) > > > > > >>>The main problem I remember there was AMD. They sponsored the event and provided >> >>Oh the hardware, well Kallisto was sponsored a PII300 by intel. Kallisto however >>was still 16 bits and way faster (like 50% or some insane big diff) on the >>233Mhz K7 that Jan Louwman had managed to get too. >> >>So officially Kallisto ran on that PII300 but in reality diep ran at it. You >>couldn't get that cpu in any shop at that time. >> >>When i entered with that machine the tournament hall i was amazed to see that >>half the tournament was carrying a PII300 with him :) >> >>The toledo2000 programmer was not understanding that his DOS just went up to >>64MB hashtables instead of the full 128MB that he had on the PII300 machine :) >> >>But i guess the real bad thing from world champs 1997 in my memory is fact that >>only search depth mattered there really, assuming a debugged program. I lost >>game after game thanks to simple tactical errors. 8 ply search for a few moves >>and DANG opponent starts smiling "i win a piece!". > > > >Ah well, so that can be put in the "good" column I guess: you discovered there >that in chess your are helpless if your opponent outsearches you significantly, >and that you'd better debug your program before the start of the tournament. > >You could have discovered that at home, but well. Wisdom is wisdom. > > > > > >>In RGCC at the time some people like Bruce and Bob just posted their believe >>that search depth mattered and the rest was not important at all, especially a >>good evaluation wouldn't matter at all. >> >>Well how they were proven wrong later of course. > > > >As far as I know nothing has been proved, either way, in this area. Note that as usual, Vincenct is just like a Christmas turkey. Full of crap. If you look at _any_ quote of mine in the past, you see "if all else is equal, search depth is a killer." > >The strength of computers at chess comes from a combination of good search >techniques and reasonable evaluation, with some emphasis still today on search. > >Don't forget what you have learned in 1997... > Probably nothing, other than "if you flap your arms you _still_ can't fly". :) > > > > >>I remember Ernst running around the tournament hall crying loud that he hit 1 >>million nodes a second. >> >>A statement done by Peter Gillgasch over the email (he has programmed the >>darkthought in alpha assembly, i guess he knew more from it than Heinz still >>does) was very correct, and still stands in 2003: "darkthought can search so >>deep thanks to a very simple reason; it is positional so stupid that nearly >>*everything* gives a beta cutoff to it". > > > >So stupid that a bunch of programs were helpless against it. > >What is your definition of stupidity? Achieving effectiveness with means that >are not to your taste? Stupid == any program except "diep". Haven't you figured that out yet?? > > > > > >>In 1999 i joined with a diep version which was very dumb in endgame and i was >>really amazed to see search depths of 20 ply in endgame there when running at >>bob's quad xeon 400Mhz with a 400MB hashtable (which was real big to me in >>1999). Only end 2000 and especially 2001 and right now i'm improving endgame >>quite a lot, still ran behind there :) >> >>>computers, but there were not enough for everybody and some of them were >>>apparently defective (The K6-233MHz was new at the time and I remember Amir Ban >>>had been provided with a defective one and had to switch machines after >>>detecting a problem). >> >>>BTW I won't go to Graz. >> >>I can understand. Will you join dutch champs though? > > > >YES. I'll not be there in person but Jeroen is going to come. > >We have a title to defend. > > > > > >>> I guess the organizers wanted to prevent any computer >>>overheating problem by organizing the tournament in November in Austria? :) >> >>Well a tournament near the end of the year has something magic always. When it's >>in the middle of the summer you always miss the summer completely. Working in >>your room last minute, or being put in a room that's hot because the machines >>heat up the room bigtime and outside temperature also is usually very hot. >> >>Thanks to that you miss a part of the summer completely and the sun already >>shines here so little :) > > > >Sun all year long here... > > > > > Christophe
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