Author: Dave Gomboc
Date: 18:50:22 09/29/03
Go up one level in this thread
On September 29, 2003 at 10:30:22, Alexander Yates wrote: >On September 28, 2003 at 09:34:43, Mark Young wrote: > >>On September 28, 2003 at 04:38:08, Kurt Utzinger wrote: >> >>>On September 28, 2003 at 00:15:02, Mark Young wrote: >>> >>>>H. Pillsbury - Em. Lasker >>>>After whites 17 move of f5 >>>> >>>>[D]2r2rk1/pp3pp1/4bb1p/q2p1P1Q/3P4/2N5/PP4PP/1K1R1B1R b - - 0 1 >>>> >>>>Here GM Kasparov gives 17..Rxc3 a (!!) mark. With the comment that the move >>>>Rxc3!! is beyond the powers of even a strong computer. >>>> >>>>Is Rxc3 really beyond the powers of a strong computer? Or is the move Rxc3 not >>>>worthy of a (!!) because it leads only to a draw. This is what the computers see >>>>after blacks 17..Rxc3. >>> >>> >>> I do not think that 17...Rxc3 will be played by >>> any computer program. And by the way: I have still >>> not found a win for Black in the following line: >>> >>> [Event "40'/40+40'/40+40'"] >>> [Site "MyTown"] >>> [Date "????.??.??"] >>> [Round "?"] >>> [White "Neue Partie"] >>> [Black "?"] >>> [Result "1/2-1/2"] >>> [SetUp "1"] >>> [FEN "2r2rk1/pp3pp1/4bb1p/q2p1P1Q/3P4/2N5/PP4PP/1K1R1B1R b - - 0 1"] >>> [PlyCount "23"] >>> [TimeControl "40/2400:40/2400:2400"] >>> >>> 1... Rxc3 2. fxe6 Ra3 3. bxa3 Qb6+ 4. Kc2 Rc8+ 5. Kd2 Qxd4+ >>> 6. Ke1 Qc3+ 7. Ke2 Qc2+ 8. Rd2 Qe4+ 9. Kd1 Qb1+ 10. Ke2 Qe4+ >>> 11. Kd1 Qb1+ 12. Ke2 Qe4+ 1/2-1/2 >> >>I came to the same conclusion. I don't think there is a win after Rxc3 with best >>defense. This is why computer will not play the move. Computers see Bd7 holding >>a much better advantage. And it seems the computers are correct. > > >The computers are not correct. They can't see deep enough to find Rxc3!! >followed by Ra3! > >This game I'm sure has been well analyzed by many Grandmasters, not just >Kasparov, who BTW is the highest rated player of all time! > >There are many combinations still too difficult for computers, and that has been >demonstrated by various tests. Nolot comes to mind...#6 I believe. Regardless, >we know some combinations are too deep or abstruse for the computer at present >time. > >Even if a computer does find the move, it will take a very long time and it may >not be for the correct reasons. > >1... Rxc3 2. fxe6 Ra3 3. bxa3 Qb6+ 4. Kc2 Rc8+ 5. Kd2 Qxd4+ >6. Ke1 Qe3+ 7. Be2 fxe6 8. Qh3! Bc3+! 9. Kf1 Rf8+ 10. Bf3 Qe4! -+ Let us continue: 11. Qg3 (box) Qc4+ 12. Kf2 (box) Bd4+ 13. Rxd4 (box) Qxd4 14. Ke2 (box) Qb2+ 15. Ke1 e5 16. Bxd5+ (box) Kh8 17. Qd3 (box) Qc1+ 18. Qd1 (box) Qc5 19. Qd3 (box) Rd8 20. Rf1 (box) and since the black Queen covers f8, Rxd5 is playable, though Black should probably throw in ...b6 before capturing on d5. Looks like a long grind, even if it is "-+" in the end. Dave
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