Author: Vincent Lejeune
Date: 14:00:22 10/06/03
Go up one level in this thread
On October 06, 2003 at 14:19:44, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>On October 06, 2003 at 13:59:30, Slater Wold wrote:
>
>>On October 06, 2003 at 13:56:33, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>
>>>On October 06, 2003 at 13:51:29, Slater Wold wrote:
>>>
>>>>[D]8/6NK/8/1Bk5/P5q1/8/8/8 w - - 0 107
>>>>
>>>>A lot of engines, after a lot of time can see this is lost.
>>>>
>>>>Crafty cannot.
>>>>
>>>>Any ideas on how to fix this? Other than waiting for Eugene to make the TB? :)
>>>
>>>Are you sure that it is lost?
>>>
>>>What is the sequence of moves that wins for black?
>>
>>Positive. Here's one engine's "proof":
>>
>>Nouvelle partie
>>8/6NK/8/1Bk5/P5q1/8/8/8 w - - 0 1
>>
>>Analysis by Hiarcs 9:
>>
>>1.Rg8
>> -+ (-3.09) Profondeur: 1/6 00:00:00
>>1.Rg8 Rb6
>> -+ (-3.30) Profondeur: 2/7 00:00:00
>>1.Rg8 Rb6
>> -+ (-3.05) Profondeur: 3/10 00:00:00
>>1.Rg8 Dg6
>> -+ (-2.97) Profondeur: 3/10 00:00:00
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Rf8 Df6+ 3.Rg8
>> -+ (-3.07) Profondeur: 4/11 00:00:00
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.a5
>> -+ (-3.00) Profondeur: 5/13 00:00:00 4kN, tb=9
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Rf8 Df6+ 3.Rg8 Rb6 4.Ce8 De6+ 5.Rf8
>> -+ (-3.19) Profondeur: 6/14 00:00:00 8kN, tb=24
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Ch5 De7 4.Fg6 Dd8+
>> -+ (-3.13) Profondeur: 7/15 00:00:00 20kN, tb=54
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Fb5 Rb6 4.Ce8 De7
>> -+ (-3.36) Profondeur: 8/17 00:00:00 34kN, tb=104
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Ch5 De7 4.Fb5 Rb6
>> -+ (-3.37) Profondeur: 9/19 00:00:00 83kN, tb=282
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Ch5 De7 4.Cg7 Rb6 5.Fb5 Ra5
>> -+ (-3.37) Profondeur: 10/21 00:00:00 145kN, tb=591
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Fb5 Rb6
>> -+ (-3.37) Profondeur: 11/25 00:00:01 472kN, tb=1756
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Fd7 Rb6 4.Ce8 Dd8 5.Fb5 De7
>> -+ (-3.40) Profondeur: 12/25 00:00:02 724kN, tb=2949
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Fd7 Rb6 4.Ce8 De7 5.Fb5 Ra5 6.Cg7 Df6 7.Ce8 Df5
>> -+ (-3.41) Profondeur: 13/27 00:00:04 1215kN, tb=5019
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Fd7 Rb6 4.Ce8 De7 5.Fb5 Ra5 6.Cg7 Df6 7.Ce8 Df5
>> -+ (-3.41) Profondeur: 14/30 00:00:09 2434kN, tb=11428
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Fb5 Rb6 4.Ce8
>> -+ (-3.41) Profondeur: 15/35 00:00:51 15968kN, tb=52954
>>1.Rg8 Df3 2.Rh7 Df7 3.Fe8 Df6 4.Fd7 Rb6 5.Rg8 Df3
>> -+ (-3.44) Profondeur: 16/39 00:01:17 24555kN, tb=85389
>>1.Rg8 Rd6 2.Rf7 Df3+ 3.Rg6 Re5 4.Ch5 Df5+ 5.Rh6 Rd6 6.Fa6 De6+ 7.Rg5 Dd5+ 8.Rh4
>>De4+
>> -+ (-3.63) Profondeur: 17/46 00:02:29 51322kN, tb=183873
>>1.Rg8 Rd6 2.Rf7 Df3+ 3.Rg6 Re5 4.Ch5 Df5+ 5.Rh6 Rd6 6.Fa6 De6+ 7.Rg5 Dd5+ 8.Rh4
>>De4+
>> -+ (-3.88) Profondeur: 18/49 00:02:47 57330kN, tb=207961
>>1.Rg8 Rd6
>> -+ (-#58) Profondeur: 18/49 00:02:48 57527kN, tb=208339
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Fb5 Rd4 4.Ce8 De7 5.Cg7 Re5 6.Fe8 Db7 7.Fb5 Rf6
>> -+ (-#31) Profondeur: 18/49 00:10:16 287814kN, tb=1226066
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Fb5 Rd4 4.Ce8 Df4
>> -+ (-#31) Profondeur: 19/49 00:11:26 327024kN, tb=1373757
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Fb5 Rd4 4.Ce8 Df4
>> -+ (-#31) Profondeur: 20/49 00:11:29 328682kN, tb=1380484
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Fb5 Rd4 4.Ce8 Df4
>> -+ (-#31) Profondeur: 21/49 00:11:41 335618kN, tb=1404576
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Fb5 Rd4 4.Ce8 Df4
>> -+ (-#31) Profondeur: 22/52 00:11:54 344638kN, tb=1433107
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Fb5 Rd4 4.Ce8 Df4
>> -+ (-#31) Profondeur: 23/53 00:12:22 362350kN, tb=1488420
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Fb5 Rd4 4.Ce8 Df4
>> -+ (-#31) Profondeur: 24/56 00:13:16 392969kN, tb=1592392
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Fb5 Rd4 4.Ce8 Df4
>> -+ (-#31) Profondeur: 25/57 00:14:38 437519kN, tb=1740029
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Fb5 Rd4 4.Ce8 Df4
>> -+ (-#31) Profondeur: 26/61 00:17:54 543503kN, tb=2069166
>>1.Rg8 Dg6 2.Fe8 Df6 3.Fb5 Rd4 4.Ce8 Df4
>> -+ (-#31) Profondeur: 27/62 00:26:04 791397kN, tb=2781311
>>
>>(, - 05.10.2003)
>
>
>
>I go to the end of your line and get nothing but draw scores.
>
> 14-> 1.04 -0.01 5. Bd7 Qg5+ 6. Kf8 Qd5 7. Ke7 Qxd7+
> <EGTB> (s=2)
> 15 1.79 -0.01 5. Bd7 Qg5+ 6. Kf8 Qd5 7. Ke7 Qxd7+
> <EGTB>
> 15-> 2.88 -0.01 5. Bd7 Qg5+ 6. Kf8 Qd5 7. Ke7 Qxd7+
> <EGTB> (s=2)
> 16 14.55 -0.01 5. Bd7 Qg5+ 6. Kf8 Qd5 7. Ke7 Qxd7+
> <EGTB>
> 16-> 18.23 -0.01 5. Bd7 Qg5+ 6. Kf8 Qd5 7. Ke7 Qxd7+
> <EGTB>
> 17 1:54 -0.01 5. Bd7 Qg5+ 6. Kf8 Kc3 7. Bb5 Qc5+
> 8. Kg8 Kb4 9. Kh8 Qxb5 <EGTB>
> 17-> 2:11 -0.01 5. Bd7 Qg5+ 6. Kf8 Kc3 7. Bb5 Qc5+
> 8. Kg8 Kb4 9. Kh8 Qxb5 <EGTB>
>
>Note that your piece names are hard for us SAN folks to read. IE I know
>a Queen is a "D", but I thought a knight was a "S" and a bishop was a
>"L"??
>
>Crafty reports draw scores all the way through starting at the initial
>position. I therefore have no idea what is wrong unless it is a simple
>matter of not extending in the right place to see some subtle threat.
after 5.Bd7, here are the 5 best lines from hiarcs 9 in PGN format :
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Nouvelle partie"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/6NK/8/1Bk5/P5q1/8/8/8 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "18"]
1. Kg8 Qg6 2. Be8 Qf6 3. Bb5 Kd4 4. Ne8 Qf4 5. Bd7 Ke5 {Hiarcs 9: 1)} 6. Kg7 ({
Hiarcs 9: 2)} 6. Ng7 Qd4 7. Be8 Kf6 8. Nh5+ Ke7 {[%eval -32744,8]}) ({
Hiarcs 9: 3)} 6. Bb5 Ke6 7. Ng7+ Ke7 8. Kh7 Qf6 {[%eval -32744,8]}) ({
Hiarcs 9: 4)} 6. a5 Qd4 7. Bh3 Qd3 {[%eval -32753,8]}) ({Hiarcs 9: 5)} 6. Bc8
Qxa4 {[%eval -32756,8]}) 6... Qd4 7. Bb5 Ke6+ 8. Kh6 Qh4+ 9. Kg6 Qg4+ {
[%eval -32738,8]} *
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