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Subject: Re: To check or not to check, this is the quiescence question

Author: Robert Hyatt

Date: 07:59:27 10/14/03

Go up one level in this thread


On October 14, 2003 at 10:26:20, Uri Blass wrote:

>On October 14, 2003 at 10:06:41, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On October 14, 2003 at 08:42:05, Tord Romstad wrote:
>>
>>>On October 14, 2003 at 07:17:27, Omid David Tabibi wrote:
>>>
>>>>Actually it seems that it is safe to ignore all capturing checks altogether in
>>>>gen_checks(). If the capture is non-losing, it will already be generated, and if
>>>>it is a losing capture, the odds that it turns out to be a good move aren't that
>>>>high (assuming that SEE hasn't mistakenly deemed the move as losing capture,
>>>>while in fact it is a winning capture since one of the defenders is pinned...)
>>>
>>>I think it is a good idea to use the SEE for checking moves, too.  Only search
>>>checks which do not lose material.
>>>
>>>Tord
>>
>>
>>Then you admit defeat before you start.  See the simple draw by stalemate
>>idea where you have a king and rook, and your king can't move.  You just
>>make unsafe check after unsafe check because the rook can't be taken.
>>
>>Safe checks are probably better than no checks, assuming you believe you
>>have to do checks in the q-search.  But, as I have said so many times, if
>>your q-search is going to have so many holes, find a way to avoid putting
>>such a heavy responsibility on the q-search in the first place.
>
>why do you assume that it is heavy responsibility?

The function of the q-search is to take a leaf position, and eliminate
any dynamic tactics so that the evaluation can produce a number that is
reasonably accurate.

Captures are a small part of potential tactics.  What about checks?  Skewers?
double attacks?  Forks?  mate threats?  Threats to promote?  Overloaded
pieces?  The q-search only considers a tiny part of that set of tactical
themes.   Yet we depend on it to give quiet positions to the evaluator.  That
_is_ a "heavy responsibility".  It is where most programs make their tactical
errors.  IE the "horizon effect" is a fault of the q-search, not anything else.




>The fact that you do not get everything from checks in the qsearch does not mean
>that it is not productive.

Of course not.  But it does mean that the q-search has plenty of errors left.
Checks just make it bigger.  Which gives even more opportunity to produce
bogus scores...


>
>The test is simple
>If the program plays better then it is a good idea.

Agreed...


>
>Uri



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