Author: James T. Walker
Date: 06:32:54 10/15/03
Go up one level in this thread
On October 15, 2003 at 01:03:43, Gerhard Sonnabend wrote: >On October 14, 2003 at 18:37:36, Mikael Bäckman wrote: > >>On October 14, 2003 at 13:11:25, Gerhard Sonnabend wrote: >> >>>On October 14, 2003 at 10:38:00, Mikael Bäckman wrote: >>> >>>>On October 14, 2003 at 07:21:47, James T. Walker wrote: >>>> >>>>>On October 14, 2003 at 06:46:39, martin fierz wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On October 14, 2003 at 06:19:17, Gerhard Sonnabend wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>Hi ! >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The second match is closed. >>>>>>>(I only post the short tables here) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Could any chessprogram profit from longer/shorter levels ? >>>>>>> >>>>>>>At the moment i carry out an experiment to find out if there are chessengines >>>>>>>which profit from shorter or longer (time)levels more than other engines. >>>>>>>Played on a P4-1600 / 64MB HTs / 4-TBs / ponder=off >>>>>>>with the "Noomen" (A-H) (=160 games every match) under the ChessBase-Fritz7-GUI. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Completed are: >>>>>>>Shredder 7.04 vs Junior 8.0.0.2 >>>>>>> Total (+ 1/2 -) >>>>>>> 5min/game 98.5-61.5 (87-23-50) >>>>>>> 10min/game 94.0-66.0 (76-36-48) >>>>>>> 30min/game 92.5-67.5 (70-45-45) >>>>>>>120min/game 89.5-70.5 (65-49-46) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>and: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Shredder 7.0(CB) vs Fritz 8.0.0.5 >>>>>>> Total (+ 1/2 -) >>>>>>> 5min/game 63.0-97.0 (40-46-74) >>>>>>> 10min/game 68.0-92.0 (49-38-73) >>>>>>> 30min/game 72.5-87.5 (47-51-62) >>>>>>>120min/game 68.5-91.5 (43-51-66) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The current matches is (after 120 games per Level): >>>>>>>Chess Tiger 15.0(CB) "Normal" vs Beta-WIN-Rebel 12 (style=Test12a) >>>>>>> Total (+ 1/2 -) >>>>>>> 5min/game 83.0-37.0 (68-30-22) >>>>>>> 10min/game 80.0-40.0 (63-34-23) >>>>>>> 30min/game 68.5-51.5 (48-41-31) >>>>>>>120min/game 65.5-54.5 (41-49-30) >>>>>>>(Played on a Cel. 1.8GHz / 128MB HTs / ...the rest look above) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>The details and the games can be found on: >>>>>>>www.pcschach.de >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Best G.S. >>>>>> >>>>>>nice tests! shredder vs junior and CT15 vs rebel 12 beta at least show trends of >>>>>>favoring one program at short and another program at long time control. >>>>>> >>>>>>this seems quite natural to me. if one program has better move ordering than >>>>>>another it will do better at longer time controls, since better MO is an >>>>>>exponential gain. i have seen this behavior in my checkers program in matches >>>>>>against another program - mine does better at longer time controls. and, since i >>>>>>know the other programmer well, i also know that i spend a lot more time on move >>>>>>ordering. so i'm not really surprised about my checkers result. i'm more >>>>>>surprised that some people don't want to believe that this effect exists :-) >>>>>> >>>>>>cheers >>>>>> martin >>>>> >>>>>So what would happen if you took Shredder vs Junior & CT15 vs Rebel 12 beta and >>>>>played them at G/120 minutes on a 286-12Mhz cpu ?? >>>> >>>> >>>>I guess the results would be similar to the 5min/game listed above. >>>> >>>>/Mikael >>> >>>Hi Mikael ! >>> >>>I'dont think so. Playing 5m/g it can happen all what you think about or not. >>>Playing games with 5 or 10m/g is nonsense. I've seen games on this level where >>>one engine has had +7.00 or more and less moves later this engine lost the game >>>(not on time) !!! >>>The MHz of the CPU isn't important. With longer time control i've never >>>seen such unusual behavior. >>>I think that the result on "this" 286-12MHz and 120m/g would bring >>>the same result as my match on the P4 on this level ! >>> >>>Best G.S. >> >> >> >> >>Hi Gerhard! >> >>The time ratio between 120m/g and 5m/g is 24. >> >>If cpu mhz would be the only thing which affects NPS (and depth), a CPU with 75 >>Mhz (1800/24) would play a 120m/g precisely the way a 1800Mhz cpu plays a 5m/g. >> >>The reason you have seen losses from +7 scores is because the engine did not >>calculate deep enough. An engine on a slow CPU would not see deep enough even >>with 120m/g. >> >>Mhz matters, > >Hi Mikael ! >MHz matters, but equal for both engines ! > >Best G.S. No matter how hard you try, some people just don't get it.
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