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Subject: Re: When will a deep Blue equivalent Be commercially Available?

Author: blass uri

Date: 21:15:39 11/08/98

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On November 08, 1998 at 21:23:31, Robert Hyatt wrote:

>On November 08, 1998 at 17:08:12, Amir Ban wrote:
>
>>On November 07, 1998 at 17:04:22, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>
>>>I don't believe so, no.  Based on 10+ years of experience in watching older
>>>and slower versions of deep thought absolutely shred micro programs, and
>>>factoring in the 100-fold improvement (at least) in the speed of DB over
>>>the older Deep Thought, I'd think that there might not be a better commercial
>>>program for even longer if my suspicion that doubling in speed every 18 months
>>>turns out to be true..  I don't see how it can continue...  and without that
>>>performance boost, micros vs db would be totally hopeless...
>>
>>Bob,
>>
>>Those 10+ years ended in 1993 or so, the last time that Deep Thought played and
>>won against a micro. As you well know, post-1993 versions of Deep Blue played
>>very few games against micros and won none of them.
>
>
>Don't know about you, but in 1994, I was in Cape May New Jersay, and watched
>the same old deep thought hardware blow everyone off the board.  Micros
>included...
>
>and I certainly don't understand your last phrase "played very few and won none"
>so I assume you can give some data.  I would invert that a bit...  it played
>very few but won *all*... the only exception was the game vs Fritz in Hong
>Kong...
>
>>
>>In 1993 the top micros were rated about 2300 (according to SSDF, the top four
>>are rated 2322, 2302, 2292, 2288), so dominating them doesn't prove superiority
>>over today's top programs. What's more, if yout play over old DT/DB games, it
>>seems to get into serious trouble in every other game it plays, but gets away
>>with it. There was a game it played as white against Zarkov in ACM (1992, I
>>think), which it made every attempt to lose, but Zarkov apparently didn't want
>>to win. Playing over this game, you realize it is lost not only against the top
>>programs of today, but even against the middle of the pack. I also wonder how
>>many of today's top programs would fail to exploit DB-Prototype's bad opening
>>against Star Socrates.
>
>Fine...  DT didn't play great.  But it blew everyone out tactically.  But what
>does that have to do with "deep blue"?  based on hardware two generations newer
>than the 1992 Deep Thought that was still unbeatable?  And let me remind you
>once again... final game of kasparov vs deep blue...  two commercial programs
>were given that position playing white, against an IM, and both lost badly...

I do not think that the opening that kasparov played was the problem but the
fact that kasparov was not ready to play it.
I am not sure if deep blue can win against the same IM or against top program
with white.

Uri




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