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Subject: Re: Node frequencies, and a flame

Author: Dann Corbit

Date: 11:41:10 10/17/03

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On October 17, 2003 at 07:24:49, martin fierz wrote:

>On October 16, 2003 at 23:48:18, Dann Corbit wrote:
>
>>On October 16, 2003 at 22:48:09, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>On October 16, 2003 at 19:11:20, Dann Corbit wrote:
>>>>On October 16, 2003 at 18:49:55, Anthony Cozzie wrote:
>>[snip]
>>>>>1. Moore's law is NOT A LAW.  Its going to come to an end by 2020, if not
>>>>>earlier.
>>>>
>>>>Not a chance.  It will continue to accelerate.  Of course, I could be wrong.
>>>
>>>It can't possibly continue to accelerate.  Everything is limited by C.  Nothing
>>>can propagate faster than that.  So we are stuck with shrinking to shorten
>>>distances so that C doesn't kill us.  But then we are limited by how far we
>>>can shrink things.  IE we now do traces that are a few dozen atoms wide.  We
>>>won't get to 1-atom widths.  And we _certainly_ won't get below that.
>>
>>Too many assumptions.
>>
>>Imagine (for instance) if we grow IC's that are 3-dimentional.  Suppose (for
>>instance, that instead of making 10 nanometer traces on a 1x1 cm flat face, we
>>are making 10 nm thick slices linked together in a 1x1x1 cm cube.  Now the
>>compute power is suddenly 1e8 times larger.
>
>sounds good at first, but think about this: today's processors generate
>something between 10 and 100 watt of heat that you need to remove. since your
>idea explicitly attempts to use today's technology, that would mean that you
>also generate 1e8 times more heat. 1GW, that's about what an atomic power plant
>delivers... now that will need one hell of a cooler :-)
>ok, so you say you will go to lower voltages in the future, as we have done in
>the past. but there is a limit there too, which is given by the band gap of
>silicon. you can't go lower than that, and we are already quite close IIRC.
>
>>Now, that's just one sort of work-around.  I imagine that there are many people
>>a lot more clever than I am that can think of even better solutions.  (Using DNA
>>to compute is a popular idea that may have merit).
>>
>>When we run out of ways to make the chip faster, why not just add more chips?
>>So instead of 1 50 GHz chip, why not use 1000 10 GHz chips?
>
>because you are increasing the distances again. and many tasks are not easily
>parallelizable (e.g. chess...)
>
>>I would be very surprised if chips fail to follow Moore's law for the next 30
>>years.
>
>i would be very surprised if they do. the main drivers of moore's law over the
>years have been miniaturization, miniaturization and miniaturization. and that
>is very definitely going to end in the near rather than in the far future.
>moore's law is an empirical observation. the laws of physics are a bit more
>solid than that :-)
>
>you can bet your money on quantum computers, DNA computers or other fancy stuff.
>IMO that's the only hope for moore's law in around 10 years time or so. and i
>certainly won't bet my money on that kind of sci-fi stuff!

Read this (if you have not read it already):
http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0134.html?printable=1



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