Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 12:55:40 10/21/03
Go up one level in this thread
On October 21, 2003 at 15:28:37, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>On October 21, 2003 at 09:59:22, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On October 20, 2003 at 21:41:25, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On October 20, 2003 at 19:21:52, Theo van der Storm wrote:
>>>
>>>That's great.
>>>
>>>So if i disagree with any move of DIEP in the future i simply do not make it at
>>>the board and it can search on for an alternative until i like one and play it
>>>over the board.
>>>
>>>For example i disagreed bigtime with Bxf4 against Rebel.
>>>
>>>Nice to know that your interpretation is the opposite of the ICGA at the world
>>>champs as it allows the operator more now to influence the game by simply
>>>disagreeing with a move.
>>>
>>>All i have to do now is make a small window choice: "did you execute the move on
>>>the board?"
>>>
>>>If the answer is: "no i didn't execute it".
>>
>>
>>I don't see any of this in his comment nor in the rules. Your opponent
>>offers a draw, you can accept or decline. If your program displays a
>
>Which draw offer?
I am talking about the scenario posted that you responded to.
>
>Jeroen like all strong players not exactly happy with what happened. I would
>have had the same reaction. Capable of throwing the rebel computer through the
>window.
>
>We just shook hands and i annotated in the meantime 1/2-1/2 assuming Jeroen
>wasn't surrendering and Jeroen left for home.
>
>Jeroen already smelt moves before the draw happened that Rebel would miss it and
>each move getting played it was as if Jeroen was missing limb after limb. He had
>seen this real real quickly. I was getting prepared to surrender, but after
>idiot moves like Bxc3? when Jeroen already started mourning that it still could
>go wrong, i woke up for 1% more.
>
>Of course no dubious search in DIEP, so less hashtable problems in DIEP than in
>Rebel.
That's all irrelevant to this discussion. I was pointing out that the human
should _not_ be able to either offer or accept a draw on behalf of the program.
The program should be able to handle this itself. "draw" should be a legal move
the machine has to accept. It can either make a decision or just print "draw
declined" but it ought to accept the offer text and do whatever the author
thinks is best. The human should be a bystander. Not an active participant.
>
>>move and says "play this" you have two choices. (1) play the move which
>>the program displayed; (2) accept the pending draw offer or offer a draw.
>>
>>Offering/accepting ought to be taken out of the operator's hands. My program
>>offers and accepts all by itself. _all_ programs should do this, else they
>>can't play legal chess. The ICCA ought to (finally) change the rule about
>>draws to reflect this, rather than living in the 1970's and letting the operator
>>make the decision.
>
>The best horseman is always on his feet
Whatever that means...
>
>>>
>>>then printf("so i will spend more time and perhaps i'll play a better move!\n");
>>>
>>>Vincent
>>>
>>>>On October 20, 2003 at 05:30:52, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 20, 2003 at 03:55:52, Jeroen Noomen wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On October 20, 2003 at 02:00:40, Ernst Walet wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I believe it went as follows:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Of course I knew that after ... a2 it is a draw immediately.
>>>>>>So I executed the move ... a2 on the board. Vincent typed it
>>>>>>in Diep, that showed 0,00 immediately, responding Rgf8+.
>>>>>>But before Vincent could execute that move, I offered the
>>>>>>draw. So Rgf8+ wasn't played anymore and the correct result
>>>>>>was ... a2 draw.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Jeroen
>>>>>
>>>>>I think that the correct result is with Rgf8+
>>>>>
>>>>>I do not see the importance of the board for the game moves.
>>>>>Computers can play also without board and the board is only for the spectators.
>>>>>
>>>>>Rgf8+ was the last move that Diep decided to play and Rebel did not respond to
>>>>>that move and even did not get it so it is the last move of the game.
>>>>>
>>>>>The only case when Rgf8+ is not part of the game is in case that
>>>>>Vincent does not allow Diep to finish its calculation and stop it by move now
>>>>>after hearing the draw offer.
>>>>>
>>>>>I understand that it did not happen and Diep already played the move Rgf8 before
>>>>>vincent accepted the draw.
>>>>>
>>>>>Uri
>>>>
>>>>I can give the definitive answer on this:
>>>>Jeroen is right (a2 draw).
>>>>We play over the board.
>>>>A draw offer was accepted by Diepeveen and Diep´s move Rgf8+ was not
>>>>executed over the board, so it´s not part of the game.
>>>>If Diepeveen would have executed the move on the board,
>>>>it would have meant a refusal of the draw offer.
>>>>This interpretation of the rules has been confirmed by the arbiter(s).
>>>>
>>>>Theo
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.