Author: Michael Agnos
Date: 02:11:28 10/22/03
Go up one level in this thread
On October 20, 2003 at 09:34:46, James T. Walker wrote:
>On October 19, 2003 at 17:18:29, George Sobala wrote:
>
>>On October 19, 2003 at 12:56:04, Mihaly Szalai wrote:
>>
>>>On October 19, 2003 at 11:41:37, George Sobala wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 19, 2003 at 09:43:49, James T. Walker wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 19, 2003 at 05:39:55, George Sobala wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>Rollicking stuff in this blitz game on ICC. This is pretty typical behaviour for
>>>>>>this personality / engine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>For those who talk nostalgically about Chess System Tal II: try this out and
>>>>>>tell me what you think! Redshift is designed to give strong amateurs a good
>>>>>>time, not to beat other chess engines.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[Event "ICC 4 0"]
>>>>>>[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
>>>>>>[Date "2003.10.19"]
>>>>>>[Round "-"]
>>>>>>[White "redshift"]
>>>>>>[Black "DrHugoELO"]
>>>>>>[Result "1-0"]
>>>>>>[ICCResult "Black checkmated"]
>>>>>>[WhiteElo "2502"]
>>>>>>[BlackElo "2232"]
>>>>>>[Opening "Caro-Kann: Bronstein-Larsen variation"]
>>>>>>[ECO "B16"]
>>>>>>[NIC "CK.07"]
>>>>>>[Time "05:22:37"]
>>>>>>[TimeControl "240+0"]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. Nc3 dxe4 4. Nxe4 Nf6 5. Nxf6+ gxf6 6. c3 Bf5 7. Nf3 e6
>>>>>>8. g3 Be7 9. Bg2 Be4 10. O-O Nd7 11. Re1 Bxf3 12. Qxf3 Qb6 13. Qh5 Nf8 14.
>>>>>>d5 cxd5 15. b4 Ng6 16. Be3 Qc6 17. c4 Qxc4 18. Rac1 Qxb4 19. Bh6 Qb6 20. Bg7
>>>>>>Kd7 21. Bxh8 Rxh8 22. Bxd5 exd5 23. Qxd5+ Bd6 24. Qf5+ Kd8 25. Rc8#
>>>>>>{Black checkmated}
>>>>>>1-0
>>>>>
>>>>>What makes you think this was CSTal-2 ?
>>>>
>>>>You misunderstood me. I apologize for being obscure.
>>>>
>>>>redshift is a computer account on ICC continually playing using the redshift.per
>>>>personality of Deep Sjeng. It is the most aggressive engine I have yet seen,
>>>>often (indeed usually) making speculative sacrifices, but then I am biased, 'cos
>>>>I wrote the parameters. This was an example game against a fairly strong amateur
>>>>human opponent. I did not pick it out specially, it plays games like this all
>>>>the time, this was just the last one I observed. On a K6-450 it has a rating of
>>>>about 2450 on ICC and has scalped quite a few weak International Masters as well
>>>>as titled players. An average "ordinary" chess engine will of course obliterate
>>>>it, but that is not the point. Basically it usually wins by inducing blunders by
>>>>the human opponent who has a material advantage in a defensive position.
>>>>
>>>>Now I have never seen the "real" CSTal2 play. I have bought Purple Software's
>>>>Chess Program which is certainly derived from CSTal2 but to my eye surely cannot
>>>>be the real uncrippled engine itself, because I have never seen it play in the
>>>>way CSTal2 has been described.
>>>>
>>>>CSTal2 always receives glowing nostalgic misty-eyed praise on this forum. I
>>>>would be interested to hear from human opponents who have played both CSTal2 and
>>>>redshift (either with their own copy of Deep Sjeng, or on an ICC account), how
>>>>the two compare.
>>>>
>>>>I hope all is now clear!
>>>
>>>
>>>DS Redshift is a great fun in blitz games. However at longer time controls
>>>I can beat it without too much effort, because it's sacs are mostly incorrect.
>>>
>>>CSTal is somewhat the opposite. It plays much better at longer time controls
>>>than DS Redshift IMO.
>>>
>>>Mihaly
>>
>>Thanks. Interesting. If only I could find a copy of the real CSTal2 ....!
>
>I once used CSTal-2 on ICC computer account for a couple of months. I set the
>strength at 50 (It's lowest level) and it played around 2000-2100 at blitz. On
>the hardware I used (K6-450) using it's lowest strength level it was searching
>around 500 nodes per second. Amazing when you think about it. And it also
>caused many people to blunder. One problem was that many people resigned early
>just because it was a computer!?
>Jim
Hmmmmm....on my CSTal-2, 50 is the highest level...
Now regarding Dr. Sobala's comment; Purple's current offering for PC's called
"Chess" is just a ghost, if even that, of CSTal-2 with only five levels of play.
One poster here claimed it is no relation whatsoever and called it a waste of
money.
However, the "complete" CSTal-2 is still available from this Canadian firm:
http://www.globalstarsoftware.com under the name "Tournament Chess."
Unfortunately, it's missing the feature that allows you to connect to other
chess servers. Other than that, it's strong! CSTal-2, imo, is equal to, and
more interesting, than Chessmaster 5500 or Fritz 4.01, which I also have. And
is does play an interesting, agressive game. Like Redshift, it does seem
designed to give strong amateurs a good time. I was rated 1800 at one point,
and I have yet to come close to beating it, either at blitz or longer time
limits. warm regards, Mike in California p.s. In the interest of fairness, I
can't beat CM 5500 or Fritz, either! ;-)
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