Author: Peter Berger
Date: 10:01:30 10/22/03
Go up one level in this thread
On October 21, 2003 at 16:01:30, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>On October 21, 2003 at 13:31:41, Peter Berger wrote:
>
>>On October 21, 2003 at 12:43:40, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>>>Shredder seems to like 22...Rg6
>>>>
>>>>22...Rg6 23.Bxg6 hxg6 24.Nxb4 0-0-0
>>>
>>>Yes, this line doesn't seem to be clearly lost for black and 22.Qh5 Bxc6 23.dxc6
>>>Rg6 seems to be a draw although it looks dangerous on first sight.
>>>The question is if there exists something better than 19.Nc6.
>>
>><snip>
>>>I can easily get a draw against Fritz 8 in that line.
>>>But of course I am not satisfied with a draw against Fritz :)
>>>
>>>Maybe we should put forward this line to Garry.
>>>He IS happy to draw the machines.
>>>
>>>Michael
>>
>>I have been following this discussion with great interest, but I haven't found a
>>better line for black yet.
>>
>>>
>>>[Event "Blitz:30'+2""]
>>>[Site "München"]
>>>[Date "????.??.??"]
>>>[Round "?"]
>>>[White "Fritz 8"]
>>>[Black "Drexel, Michael"]
>>>[Result "1/2-1/2"]
>>>[PlyCount "58"]
>>>[TimeControl "1800+2"]
>>>
>>>{64MB, Fritz8.ctg, ATHLONXP} 1. e4 {0} c5 {1} 2. Nf3 {0} d6 {1} 3. d4 {0} cxd4
>>>{1} 4. Nxd4 {0} Nf6 {1} 5. Nc3 {0} a6 {(Nc6) 1} 6. Bg5 {0} e6 {3} 7. f4 {0} Be7
>>>{0} 8. Qf3 {0} Qc7 {0} 9. O-O-O {0} Nbd7 {1} 10. g4 {0} b5 {1} 11. Bxf6 {0}
>>>Nxf6 {1} 12. g5 {0} Nd7 {1} 13. f5 {0} Nc5 {1} 14. f6 {0} gxf6 {2} 15. gxf6 {0}
>>>Bf8 {1} 16. Rg1 {0} b4 {(h5) 2} 17. Nd5 {0} exd5 {1} 18. exd5 {0} Nd7 {(Bd7) 2}
>>>19. Nc6 {0} Bb7 {4} 20. Bh3 {0} Ne5 {(Bxc6) 3} 21. Rge1 {0} Rg8 {(Bh6+) 7
>>
>>But I wanted to make a suggestion for White instead. How about 21. Rde1 ? It
>>looks natural and logical to me - it also stops your plan of defense. I haven't
>>got a database or chessbooks around currently to check if this is a well-known
>>one and if it works as I think it does.
>
>I assume a database or books wont help you much here. I found only games from
>'weak' players with 21.Rde1. I have an old Najdorf for the tournament player
>book.
>The line 20...Ne5 is not in the book.
>
>I thought about this idea too, Peter.
>It stops Black from playing Rg8 but on the other hand a Rook on d1 is very
>useful in this line. After 21.Rge1 the continuation Bxc6 22.dxc6 Rb8 loses due
>to 23.Rxe5+ dxe5 24.Bd7+ Kd8 25.Qd5 Bd6 26.Qxf7 +-.
>Without a Rook on d1 the move order Bxc6 22.dxc6 Rb8 is possible (see below)
>
>I am really not a strong tactician so I am not able to figure out so quickly
>what is exactly going here.
>If black can not activate his rooks quickly he would be completely lost in all
>those lines.
>
>My conclusion is that it is not yet clear that 16...b4 loses.
>Anyway, the lines in the commercial books are for sure not long enough.
>
>Michael
>
>[Event "?"]
>[Site "?"]
>[Date "2003.10.21"]
>[Round "?"]
>[White "?"]
>[Black "?"]
>[Result "*"]
>[PlyCount "52"]
>[EventDate "2003.10.21"]
>
>1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 Be7 8. Qf3
>Qc7 9. O-O-O Nbd7 10. g4 b5 11. Bxf6 Nxf6 12. g5 Nd7 13. f5 Nc5 14. f6 gxf6 15.
>gxf6 Bf8 16. Rg1 b4 17. Nd5 exd5 18. exd5 Nd7 19. Nc6 Bb7 20. Bh3 Ne5 21. Rde1
>Bxc6 22. dxc6 Rb8 23. Qd5 (23. Kb1 Rb5) (23. Rxe5+ dxe5 24. Bd7+ Kd8 25. Rd1 (
>25. Qd5 Qa7 (25... Rb6 26. Rd1 Qd6) 26. Bf5+ Kc7 27. Qxf7+ Kb6 28. Qxa7+ Kxa7
>29. c7 Bh6+ 30. Kd1 Rbf8) 25... Bd6 (25... Qa5 26. Rd5 Bc5 (26... Rb5 27. c7+)
>27. Qe4 Kc7 28. Qxe5+ Kb6) 26. Qd5 Rf8) 23... Kd8 (23... Rb5 24. Rxe5+ Kd8 25.
>Re8+ Kxe8 26. Bd7+ Kd8 27. Qxf7 Re5 28. Rg8) 24. Bf1 (24. Rxe5 Bh6+ 25. Kb1 (
>25. Reg5 Rb5) 25... Rb5) 24... Nxc6 (24... Bh6+ 25. Kb1 Nxc6 26. Rg4 Rb6 27.
>Rh4 (27. Rc4 Qd7 28. Bh3 (28. Re7 Nxe7 29. fxe7+ Kxe7 30. Re4+ Kd8 31. Qd4 Kc7
>32. Qxh8 d5 33. Re1) 28... Qxh3 29. Rxc6 Rxc6 30. Qxc6 Qd7) 27... Bf8 28. Rhe4
>Qd7 29. Qh5) 25. Rg4 (25. Bc4 Bh6+ 26. Kb1 Bf4 27. Rg4 (27. Bxa6 Ne5 28. Re4
>Qb6) 27... Be5 28. Rg7 Rf8 29. Rxh7) 25... b3 (25... Rb6 26. Rc4 Kc8 27. Bg2
>Kb7 28. Ree4) 26. axb3 Nb4 *
>
Hi Michael, I agree with most of your analysis. 21. Rde1 indeed doesn't seem to
work either - I also agree that move 19 might be the most interesting moment to
look for an improvement . I tried a little with 19. Qh5 against some programs,
and this might be a better possibility to fight for an advantage. At least there
is definitely no lines in the Fritz or Tiger books, that would make it look like
a bad idea to play 16. ..b4?! - the lines given only lead to equality.
Peter
This page took 0 seconds to execute
Last modified: Thu, 15 Apr 21 08:11:13 -0700
Current Computer Chess Club Forums at Talkchess. This site by Sean Mintz.