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Subject: Re: Disequilibrium schemes

Author: Anthony Cozzie

Date: 18:34:31 10/22/03

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On October 22, 2003 at 21:00:52, Dave Gomboc wrote:

>On October 22, 2003 at 14:40:23, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On October 22, 2003 at 13:13:37, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>
>>>On October 22, 2003 at 06:30:13, Sergei S. Markoff wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hello All!
>>>>
>>>>DS - is a term for using some features of classical evaluation that consists of
>>>>two parts - material and positional.
>>>>There are a lot of positions in that for one side material evaluation is >0 but
>>>>positional evaluation is <0 or vice versa. The root of big part of mistakes made
>>>>by modern engines is underestimating of positional eval because the positional
>>>>evaluation is constructed of several "atomic" factors. The _sum_ of this factors
>>>>frequently isn't good positional evaluation (anyway there are a lot of
>>>>"palliative" methods to avoid this problem like evaluation the relationship
>>>>between several factors). We can't fully trust positional evaluation and that's
>>>>why most of modern programs using a small values for a lot of factors.
>>>
>>>In 1990 your statement would have been true.
>>>
>>>However in 2003, i know very little modern programs with small values for the
>>>positional factors. Perhaps diep is one of them in some sense, yet the quantity
>>>makes the total positional score overrule any material reality.
>>>
>>>>The idea of DS is to use disagreement between positional and material
>>>>evaluation. There are a lot of ways how to use it. For example we can check
>>>>nodes in which sum_eval < alpha, but positional eval is large (for example we
>>>>sacrificed a pawn for attack e.t.c.). For this nodes we can:
>>>>1. Rebuild quiescence to include checks e.t.c.
>>>>2. Extend search
>>>>3. Change eval for the case of losing pawn or quality (trade bishop or knight
>>>>for rook) for big passed pawn / king attack eval.
>>>>4. Do assymetric eval.
>>>>5. Something else?
>>>>
>>>>Do you have some ideas in this area?
>>>
>>>In case you forgot, the evaluation can just return 1 score and that's a total
>>>score it can't return 2 scores for either positional or tactical matters.
>>
>>I do not think that sergei forgot something.
>>He is a good programmer and smarthink is one of the best free engines.
>>
>>The fact that the evaluation can return only one score does not mean that the
>>program cannot compute more than one score to get decisions because decisions
>>are not only about evaluation but also about which lines to extend.
>>
>>Uri
>
>There's no law that says a score must be scalar.
>
>Dave


I just had a vision of a program that returned tensors in its eval.  Hmm.

I'm with Sergei on this one though - Zappa already keeps track of the various
"parts" of the eval, so I can tell if the position has a high kingsafety score
for white or some such.

anthony



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