Author: Robert Hyatt
Date: 10:32:27 10/28/03
Go up one level in this thread
On October 28, 2003 at 12:43:27, Djordje Vidanovic wrote:
>On October 28, 2003 at 10:55:53, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>
>>On October 28, 2003 at 10:38:04, Djordje Vidanovic wrote:
>>
>>>On October 28, 2003 at 09:42:48, Robert Hyatt wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>No. If you look at _my_ history with Cray Blitz you will see that I
>>>>discovered that we played better with 1. d4 as white. We had some
>>>>reasonable positional knowledge that helped in the more strategic
>>>>openings that arise from 1. d4. I didn't do it because I thought I
>>>>was hurting my chances of winning... I did it because I thought it
>>>>_helped_.
>>>>
>>>>I assume Jeroen did the same thing. Perhaps some of his 1. e4 lines
>>>>led Sjeng into positions it didn't like or understand or play very well.
>>>>It would be natural to try to avoid them.
>>>>
>>>>I have this horrible tendency to believe that most people do their
>>>>very best when helping others. I can't imagine him intentionally
>>>>preparing a book for Sjeng that would decrease its chances of winning.
>>>>
>>>>Now if you want to argue that one book author should not be allowed to
>>>>prepare an opening book for three different programs, there I agree 100%.
>>>>I can't contribute significant pieces of code to three different programs
>>>>and have them all play in ICCA events. I don't see why someone can
>>>>contribute three significant opening books (which can go as deep as 20 moves
>>>>in a game that may only last 40 moves). The ICCA is completely out of
>>>>touch with common sense here, mainly because of $$$ I assume.
>>>>
>>>>What is happening is wrong. But it isn't wrong because Jeroen is trying to
>>>>make Sjeng lose. It is wrong because one person is helping _three_ programs
>>>>to win. That is bogus. The ICCA _knows_ it is bogus. But they let it
>>>>continue, for reasons only they have.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes. What you said makes perfect sense. I had problems understanding that: I
>>>had always thought of Jeroen as the Rebel book author -- now you see him as the
>>>Tiger and Deep Sjeng book author as well. I am not saying that it is dishonest
>>>on his part -- but it definitely puts him in a split personality kind of
>>>position. Furthermore, I believe that he simply can't be as successful as he
>>>might be creating only one book.
>>>
>>>Strange in my opinion. And difficult to understand.
>>>
>>>Djordje
>>
>>I don't think it has a thing to do with honesty. I'd never question
>>Jeroen's honesty at all.
>>
>>It does have a lot to do with fairness. Bruce Moreland summed it up
>>best: "why do I have to face the _same_ outstanding book twice in the
>>same tournament when I don't ever face the same _program_ twice?"
>>
>>That's a good point. A good book can be a significant advantage. There
>>are complaints if an amateur tries to use a commercial program's opening
>>book. Why not if two different commercial entries try to use the same
>>book?
>
>Of course not, Bob. Jeroen's honesty was never an issue. The guy's just OK and
>nice to talk to. He's always contributed sensible stuff to the forum. It is a
>question of: a. his ability to act as a different book maker for different
>engines ("the split personality chess book maker syndrome"), and b. fairness to
>other participants in a chess event (th point you made). It was not easy to
>wiggle out of Jeroen's traps and tricks in Leiden, and I had luck (got 2/3
>against his books, with a little luck on my side). But his books are, together
>with Alex Kure's, worth perhaps 30-50 ELO for an engine.
>
>Djordje
If Jeroen wrote three different books, and by different I mean _no common
lines_ then I would not object. But I would bet that 90% of all 3 books is
the same, if not 100%. And that is the part I don't like. Yes, his books
are _always_ good. But do I _really_ have to face his book three (or more
times if they add more engines) in the _same_ event?
I think that was the main point Bruce made the last time this came up.
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