Author: Rolf Tueschen
Date: 07:47:21 10/30/03
Go up one level in this thread
Jeroen to me is a great expert in CC books, no doubt. Now Jeroen feels attacked
and leaves
but he doesn't speak out to whom he gives the Black Card. It looks as if he
meant Vincent.
But I found a lot of quotes by a far more famous CC expert than Vincent, who has
criticised the
activities of Jeroen as such. It was Bob Hyatt. Please read below the main
points in Bob's critic.
And then ask yourself why Jeroen possible left this forum. To me Bob's critic is
crystal clear.
If it's forbidden to enter with three engines then it is also forbidden, or
should be forbidden,
that a single person can enter in three different teams as the book doctor.
That has absolutely nothing to do with what Jeroen did in specific games. It is
a critic as such.
I find all the points quite reasonable and ask myself why that practice is
tolerated.
Why such a question can't be discussed here without mentioning a particular book
doctor. Such
a question is basic IMO.
Here are my quotes [all without any sign before a line is from Bob]:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Who's to say what is fair and what is not?
>More importantly, is the question really interesting?
The book part is. IE suppose _everybody_ in an event gets to use a high-
quality book, except for _you_. You get thrashed game after game, before
you even leave the opening book. Does that show anything interesting? Do
you like the result?
I don't mind getting killed by a bad book line of mine, or a prepared book
line of my opponent. I just don't particularly want to see one person work
full-time on a book that will kill me, and then have it used by three
_different_ programs in three different rounds of the same event.
That's the problem I see... and that others see also...
~~~~~~
I am willing to compete with a commercial programmer. I don't have a problem
with that and never have. What I don't particularly like is to have one person
working on three different teams. And yes, Virginia, the book is a major part
of a chess engine and it is important to have a good one. Letting one person
work on the book for three engines is no different than one person working
on three different engines directly. It isn't allowed by the rules...
~~~~~
You [to Uri] have to think outside your statistical box here. Your 40 elo
obviously
has to apply to the effect on _many_ games. But in a tournament, that is
not so important. A good book can produce a "1" score in a critical game,
if you know who you are playing, what he likes to play, and you have time to
prepare a particular line against him. I saw this in _many_ of the old ACM
CC events. I did it myself multiple times. So even though such book
preparation only wins one game out of every 10, that could be the key game
that puts you in 1st position after the final round.
~~~
I just don't want to face the _same_ book
from multiple opponents, when that same book is prepared by a very capable
book author, considering that I do my own book and it takes away from my
development time...
~
What I do mind is sharing members between teams, which _could_ produce a
different program for each team member. That maximizes that team's chance
of producing a #1.
~~~~~~
I don't mind sharing ideas, or even making suggestions for the book. But to
put someone on creating a book with a significant effort, then letting multiple
programs use that book, seems unreasonable to me. As I said, a typical chess
game lasts 50 moves. I have played _many_ games where the first 20-25 moves
come from the book. That is a _major_ influence on the result, since the book
supplies 1/2 of the total moves played in the game...
That is _direct_ involvement in the final outcome, providing just as many
moves as the actual chess engine. If three programs can share the same
book, should we not allow the same program to enter three times with three
different books? Same thing _exactly_.
~~~
>If there is a great deal of money involved the "glory" is less important than
>simply winning, and you may have a point there (not really an issue in computer
>chess events I'm afraid:).
I disagree. When I compete in anything, I want a level playing field. Whether
it be chess, checkers, tennis or fishing.
########
All from the loong thread "Congrats to Ruffian!"
see http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?324425
and http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?324206
and http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?324184
and http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?324469
and finally
http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?324429
Rolf
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