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Subject: Re: subject = Noomen book.

Author: José Carlos

Date: 08:42:33 10/30/03

Go up one level in this thread


On October 30, 2003 at 11:24:28, Drexel,Michael wrote:

>On October 30, 2003 at 11:09:41, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On October 30, 2003 at 11:04:57, Drexel,Michael wrote:
>>
>>>On October 30, 2003 at 10:30:02, José Carlos wrote:
>>>
>>>>On October 30, 2003 at 09:57:18, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On October 30, 2003 at 08:21:14, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On October 30, 2003 at 08:07:01, Vincent Diepeveen wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On October 30, 2003 at 06:07:37, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On October 30, 2003 at 04:12:14, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>On October 30, 2003 at 03:41:42, Uri Blass wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I do not understand what all this discussion is about.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Can you explain what is the subject that you disagree with Bob.
>>>>>>>>>>You say nothing against Vincent who attack Jeroen for no reason.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I'm replying to that in another thread.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Jeroen could prepare some book to avoid draw between Sjeng and Tiger and Rebel.
>>>>>>>>>>Jeroen did not do it.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>The company who sells all the 3 programs is the same so it is clear that draw >in these games is the worst result for commercial reasons because it increase
>>>>>>>>>>the chances of another program to win.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I don't understand, shouldn't other people be happy that we refuse to 'fix'
>>>>>>>>>the results?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Of course but Vincent said in
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?324307
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Though i commercially can understand the idea, from sportive viewpoint i find it
>>>>>>>>very disgusting.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>My point is that if Jeroen can do disgusting things for commercial reasons the
>>>>>>>>first thing that I expect him to do it is not to do draws between the programs.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>For the same reason i expect a draw in world champs 2003 between Fritz and
>>>>>>>Brutus.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Imagine the very well sold commercial program at a small PC, whose public
>>>>>>>statement is that it only learns through search, it plays a 6 times faster
>>>>>>>opponent who in its evaluation is applying double the knowledge.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Normally spoken that is a loss by natural induction with small draw chances.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Not that I suspect that chessbase is going to cheat for commercial reasons but
>>>>>>for commercial reasons I see no reason to do a draw.
>>>>>>If chessbase want to sell Fritz and agree to cheat for that purpose then a win
>>>>>>for Fritz is better than a draw.
>>>>>
>>>>>I have not accused chessbase nor lokasoft nor schroeder BV from cheating in this
>>>>>respect.
>>>>>
>>>>>These are your words.
>>>>>
>>>>>There is a large gray area between cheating and not providing the best for a
>>>>>certain engine.
>>>>>
>>>>>In the case of brutus we talk about an austrian program which is better with an
>>>>>austrian openingsbook creator.
>>>>>
>>>>>How can he have peace with Fritz beating Brutus?
>>>>>
>>>>>The only compromis to keep all sides happy is a draw.
>>>>>
>>>>>You should take the compromis culture of western-europe into consideration for
>>>>>matters like these.
>>>>
>>>>  In that case take Spain out of western-europe, please. Go cheating somewhere
>>>>else.
>>>>
>>>>  José C.
>>>
>>>Do you want to say in your country are no cheaters?
>>>I played against some time cheaters from Spain on playchess server many months
>>>ago.
>>>At least they claimed to be Spaniards.
>>>
>>>Michael
>>
>>If they are cheaters, then the fact that they claimed to be spaniards suggest
>>that they are not spaniards.
>>
>>
>>Jos also did not claim that there are no cheaters in spain.
>>
>>Saying that the culture of spain is to cheat is not the same as saying that
>>there are cheaters in spain.
>>
>>Uri
>
>I don't hope the 'culture' of any western-european country is to cheat.

  Vincent implied in western-europe there's a cheating culture. He could have
said that in Holland there's a cheating culture, in which case I wouldn't have
answered. But implying there's a cheating culture in western europe makes me
wish spain does not belong to western-europe.
  In other words: Vincent, speak for yourself, not for the rest of the
europeans.

>Two chessplayers from the same chessclub decide to make an early draw in a
>tournament. This happens quite often.
>AFAIK it is not regarded as cheating, although I always prefer to play.
>
>Michael

  But that was not the point. The point was fixing a game result to get a bigger
prize. That's cheating. And then Vincent mentioned fixing a game result for
"cultural" reasons. That's cheating also.

  José C.



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