Author: José Carlos
Date: 08:42:33 10/30/03
Go up one level in this thread
On October 30, 2003 at 11:24:28, Drexel,Michael wrote: >On October 30, 2003 at 11:09:41, Uri Blass wrote: > >>On October 30, 2003 at 11:04:57, Drexel,Michael wrote: >> >>>On October 30, 2003 at 10:30:02, José Carlos wrote: >>> >>>>On October 30, 2003 at 09:57:18, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>> >>>>>On October 30, 2003 at 08:21:14, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>> >>>>>>On October 30, 2003 at 08:07:01, Vincent Diepeveen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>On October 30, 2003 at 06:07:37, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>On October 30, 2003 at 04:12:14, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>On October 30, 2003 at 03:41:42, Uri Blass wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I do not understand what all this discussion is about. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Can you explain what is the subject that you disagree with Bob. >>>>>>>>>>You say nothing against Vincent who attack Jeroen for no reason. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I'm replying to that in another thread. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Jeroen could prepare some book to avoid draw between Sjeng and Tiger and Rebel. >>>>>>>>>>Jeroen did not do it. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>The company who sells all the 3 programs is the same so it is clear that draw >in these games is the worst result for commercial reasons because it increase >>>>>>>>>>the chances of another program to win. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I don't understand, shouldn't other people be happy that we refuse to 'fix' >>>>>>>>>the results? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Of course but Vincent said in >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>http://www.talkchess.com/forums/1/message.html?324307 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Though i commercially can understand the idea, from sportive viewpoint i find it >>>>>>>>very disgusting. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>My point is that if Jeroen can do disgusting things for commercial reasons the >>>>>>>>first thing that I expect him to do it is not to do draws between the programs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>For the same reason i expect a draw in world champs 2003 between Fritz and >>>>>>>Brutus. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Imagine the very well sold commercial program at a small PC, whose public >>>>>>>statement is that it only learns through search, it plays a 6 times faster >>>>>>>opponent who in its evaluation is applying double the knowledge. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Normally spoken that is a loss by natural induction with small draw chances. >>>>>> >>>>>>Not that I suspect that chessbase is going to cheat for commercial reasons but >>>>>>for commercial reasons I see no reason to do a draw. >>>>>>If chessbase want to sell Fritz and agree to cheat for that purpose then a win >>>>>>for Fritz is better than a draw. >>>>> >>>>>I have not accused chessbase nor lokasoft nor schroeder BV from cheating in this >>>>>respect. >>>>> >>>>>These are your words. >>>>> >>>>>There is a large gray area between cheating and not providing the best for a >>>>>certain engine. >>>>> >>>>>In the case of brutus we talk about an austrian program which is better with an >>>>>austrian openingsbook creator. >>>>> >>>>>How can he have peace with Fritz beating Brutus? >>>>> >>>>>The only compromis to keep all sides happy is a draw. >>>>> >>>>>You should take the compromis culture of western-europe into consideration for >>>>>matters like these. >>>> >>>> In that case take Spain out of western-europe, please. Go cheating somewhere >>>>else. >>>> >>>> José C. >>> >>>Do you want to say in your country are no cheaters? >>>I played against some time cheaters from Spain on playchess server many months >>>ago. >>>At least they claimed to be Spaniards. >>> >>>Michael >> >>If they are cheaters, then the fact that they claimed to be spaniards suggest >>that they are not spaniards. >> >> >>Jos also did not claim that there are no cheaters in spain. >> >>Saying that the culture of spain is to cheat is not the same as saying that >>there are cheaters in spain. >> >>Uri > >I don't hope the 'culture' of any western-european country is to cheat. Vincent implied in western-europe there's a cheating culture. He could have said that in Holland there's a cheating culture, in which case I wouldn't have answered. But implying there's a cheating culture in western europe makes me wish spain does not belong to western-europe. In other words: Vincent, speak for yourself, not for the rest of the europeans. >Two chessplayers from the same chessclub decide to make an early draw in a >tournament. This happens quite often. >AFAIK it is not regarded as cheating, although I always prefer to play. > >Michael But that was not the point. The point was fixing a game result to get a bigger prize. That's cheating. And then Vincent mentioned fixing a game result for "cultural" reasons. That's cheating also. José C.
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