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Subject: Re: Usage of general.ctg book+CB learner by ChessMaster in SSDF testing

Author: Chessfun

Date: 19:27:54 10/30/03

Go up one level in this thread


On October 30, 2003 at 22:21:39, Christophe Theron wrote:

>On October 30, 2003 at 17:58:29, Uri Blass wrote:
>
>>On October 30, 2003 at 17:10:25, Christophe Theron wrote:
>>
>>>On October 30, 2003 at 14:32:08, Gian-Carlo Pascutto wrote:
>>>
>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>I don't understand why ChessMaster is allowed to use a Kure book (general.ctg)
>>>>in the SSDF testing.
>>>>
>>>>Last time this happened (with Gromit) it was specifically said by Alex Kure
>>>>that it was _not_ allowed to use the Fritz books to test anything other
>>>>than Fritz. So why is ChessMaster using it now? Did Kure give permission
>>>>(which I seriously doubt)?
>>>>
>>>>IMHO using the ChessBase learner for ChessMaster is also very questionable.
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>GCP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I agree to both of your points.
>>>
>>>If Kure does not allow one of its books to be used, it is unfair to let CM9000
>>>use it.
>>>
>>>CM9000 is not a ChessBase product, so it is unfair to allow the engine to use
>>>the ChessBase book learning system.
>>>
>>>Thank you for bringing it to our attention. I'm extremely surprised that the
>>>SSDF guys do something that is clearly against the spirit of their list.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Christophe
>>
>>CM9000 is not a chessbase product but I think that the ssdf should be allowed to
>>test every combination of engine, book and learning.
>>
>>After all the interesting question is what is the best thing that people can buy
>>and if people can buy chessmaster together with Fritz book and get something
>>better than it is important to know it.
>>
>>SSDF have not enough time to test every combination and this is the reason that
>>they should prefer the programmer choice in case that he suggests something(I
>>guess that in this case Johan suggested nothing so they are free to test it in
>>the way that they want to do it)
>>
>>I think that book makers should not be allowed to forbid people to test their
>>book with another program.
>>
>>They earn enough from not allowing other people to use their book in world
>>championship or from the fact that people know that the ssdf leader used their
>>book.
>>
>>Chessbase also can earn money if people know that the programmer chose to test
>>chessmaster under chessbase because it means that people may buy both chessbase
>>interface and chessmaster.
>>
>>Uri
>
>
>
>Come on, Uri...
>
>Maybe you hope that some day the same favor will be allowed for Movei?
>
>It's ridiculous. The spirit of the SSDF has always been to test the programs
>"out of the box", unless the programmer himself suggests a change in the default
>setup.
>
>Here it's not an "out of the box" program that is tested, because it cannot be
>tested automatically.
>
>OK, I can understand that.
>
>But WHY would this program receive TWO UNFAIR ADVANTAGES?


You seem to also have missed that this isn't the default CM9K but a modified
settings version SKR.

Also there are others programs which have been tested previously by the SSDF
using a general.ctg from CB. Those programs tested also were not part of CB's
stable.

Sarah.


>Why would the SSDF give an advantage when the author and the manufacturer of the
>program in question have provided no help to solve the issues of the book and
>the GUI???
>
>If this is allowed now by the SSDF, I guess chess programmers do not have to
>write an opening book. Just write an engine and send it to the SSDF, they will
>add a GUI, book learning and a very strong opening book.
>
>In two years from now the Kure book will be standard and all the SSDF games will
>end in a draw because all games will be Kure book against Kure book.
>
>Instead of giving CM9000 TWO unfair advantages it should:
>* either not be tested at all
>* or be tested without opening (and without book learning of course)
>
>What's the next step? "Dear SSDF, I have written a chess program that cannot
>play the endgame, so please switch to Shredder when you reach the endgame stage.
>Thank you."
>
>
>
>    Christophe



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